Author Topic: Maico 700cc.  (Read 3658 times)

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Offline Natroy

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Maico 700cc.
« on: October 01, 2016, 09:56:31 AM »
Not VMX. Just saw a pic of a 2015 Maico 700cc 2 stroke MX bike. Are they making them? It would be a weapon.
Cheers.

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2016, 10:40:48 AM »
They have been around for some time now. Nothing new really.

Also look up the 700cc ATK
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 10:44:01 AM by LWC82PE »
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Offline Momus

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2016, 02:32:06 PM »
You can get similar size CR500 upgrade cylinders

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2016, 03:25:26 PM »
The newer Maicos seem to exist only as internet memes - lots of talk, but actual buyers/owners are impossible to find.
 I wonder if you could actually get one, even if you didn't have a better way to spend the cash.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline skypig

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2016, 03:35:59 PM »
You can get similar size CR500 upgrade cylinders

Really? Madness, yet appealing.

Like many aging man children who have hit their heads once too often; I have long had a place in my heart for a CR500AF. (E.g. Service Honda) I think it's a case of nostalgia and wishful thinking v reality.

Interestingly MXA said the latest MX 250 2 strokes from KTM/Husqvarna might be too powerful. (They can be tamed somewhat with the power valve.)
I read another report where a 300 conversion on a KTM SX250 (pre 2016 model) was returned for "de tuning"! (Apparently using an enduro spec barrel and maybe ignition timing is recommended for anyone below world championship speed who desires an open class 2 stroke MXr.)

I guess 2 strokes would be even more advanced if they hadn't been killed off by class rules in many disciplines.

My next bike is likely to be one of the new 300 2T Enduro bikes. Can't beat the light weight and the exciting but predictable power delivery (no random 4 stroke hiccups.)

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2016, 03:38:56 PM »
go for a folan 1000 (a twin shock husky with two 500 engines joined together) some footage on youtube

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2016, 04:39:27 PM »
You would think those 700cc 2T's would be good for something like the Baja or Finke but i have not seen one in the top placings at all. Maybe they are too much of a handful for even those events?
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Offline dont

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 05:41:20 PM »
They should have very wide power bands, maybe they only need two gears, fwd and reverse?

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2016, 06:45:53 PM »
husky auto!!! how good would a 1000 cc auto be

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2016, 10:23:51 PM »
Twin cylinder dirt bikes never work. Adventure bikes are as dirt-worthy as twins get.
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Offline PEZBerq

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2016, 09:02:32 AM »
husky auto!!! how good would a 1000 cc auto be

Hondas new Africa Twin has an auto transmission option available  :o
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Offline evo550

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2016, 12:33:02 PM »
You can get similar size CR500 upgrade cylinders

Really? Madness, yet appealing.

Like many aging man children who have hit their heads once too often; I have long had a place in my heart for a CR500AF. (E.g. Service Honda) I think it's a case of nostalgia and wishful thinking v reality.

Interestingly MXA said the latest MX 250 2 strokes from KTM/Husqvarna might be too powerful. (They can be tamed somewhat with the power valve.)
I read another report where a 300 conversion on a KTM SX250 (pre 2016 model) was returned for "de tuning"! (Apparently using an enduro spec barrel and maybe ignition timing is recommended for anyone below world championship speed who desires an open class 2 stroke MXr.)

I guess 2 strokes would be even more advanced if they hadn't been killed off by class rules in many disciplines.

My next bike is likely to be one of the new 300 2T Enduro bikes. Can't beat the light weight and the exciting but predictable power delivery (no random 4 stroke hiccups.)
I have ridden both a CR500af and a genuine KTM 250sx with the 300 sx upgrade (on the same day) The 500 af although looks cool still has a motor that was designed for tracks of a bygone era with just to much power, and the 300sx was, as you said a monster, nearly as powerful as the 500, but with the 250 sx hit...happily handed it back and got on my 300 exc. A 300 exc with 250sx gear cluster would be the ultimate old fart mx bike.

Offline KTM47

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2016, 01:24:30 PM »
The newer Maicos seem to exist only as internet memes - lots of talk, but actual buyers/owners are impossible to find.
 I wonder if you could actually get one, even if you didn't have a better way to spend the cash.

http://www.ktm-koestler.de/en/maico-bikes/maico-shop/maico-models-2016.html
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

1999 KTM 200, 1976/77 KTM 400,1981 Maico 490

Offline shelpi

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2016, 01:39:56 PM »
 Maico 700 the engine primarly is a Zabel wich was developed from the 1983/84 Maico 490 By Mr Koesler,
Mr Zabel's introduction to Maico was threw a side car team in 1984 with the maico brothers Otto Maisch and Wilhelm Maisch, Herman walgenbach of (HEWA fame) and co-developer of the Zabel 2 stroke tuned Maico's
Walter Netterschied (Rider) got a 2nd at the German Nationals and 14th at the GP World Championship (sidecar motocross) in 1984.
  the Zabel is mostly for GP Motocross sidecar application to this day and have won world championships from 1985 to the present day,
the engine baisicaly stayed the same until the  change in the mid nineties, even today some parts are interchangeable with the 1983 490 with the 700

have more stuff tried to keep it brief

Offline skypig

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2016, 02:59:02 PM »
Interesting comparison: 4T v 2T

KTM690
690cc 105mm bore x 80mm stroke x 1
73hp @ 7500 ("at the brochure"- 2017 model)

Maico 685cc 2 stroke race motor
685cc 100mm bore x 87mm stroke x 1
60kw@?? (80hp) (at the website. Dependent on installation.)

The 4 stroke is almost identical displacement. Only 9% down on claimed power (very rubbery figures, but close enough) while having 10 000 km service intervals and a power delivery that can be used in the carpark or the Dakar rally.

The 2 stroke would be lighter and not require a fuel pump.

Offline Bruno1969

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2016, 10:29:05 PM »
The newer Maicos seem to exist only as internet memes - lots of talk, but actual buyers/owners are impossible to find.
 I wonder if you could actually get one, even if you didn't have a better way to spend the cash.

I have one, a 2013 500. Built by a KTM dealer in Dortmund, Germany. Based on the 83/84 Maico engines which are used as Zabels in sidecar MX. A massive bike, and as strong as all hell. Pulls like a freight train at anything above idle and if I am honest, not a huge amount of fun to ride. Cool as all hell though!

No real differance, other than bore, between the 500, 620 and 680.

Here in SA, there must be four or five that I know of.

Cheers

     

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2016, 08:12:43 AM »
Folan 1000

https://youtu.be/LumVeSdhYyw

there is a vid of a mx bike with one of these engines in it but it isn't coming up.

cool sound.

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2016, 08:53:44 AM »
The newer Maicos seem to exist only as internet memes - lots of talk, but actual buyers/owners are impossible to find.
 I wonder if you could actually get one, even if you didn't have a better way to spend the cash.

I have one, a 2013 500. Built by a KTM dealer in Dortmund, Germany. Based on the 83/84 Maico engines which are used as Zabels in sidecar MX. A massive bike, and as strong as all hell. Pulls like a freight train at anything above idle and if I am honest, not a huge amount of fun to ride. Cool as all hell though!

No real differance, other than bore, between the 500, 620 and 680.

Here in SA, there must be four or five that I know of.

Cheers

     

Interesting, thanks!
I've got an 86 250 in the shed, and can clearly see the "new" versions are the same basic bike.
Without wanting to upset anyone, it does seem pretty clear that trying to make a 30+ year old design work in 2016 is pushing poop uphill. When the bikes are more expensive than more current designs, then you're trying to push it uphill with a pointy stick.

How does the motor compare to a KX500 or CR500?
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Offline Mick D

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2016, 11:12:49 AM »
Just wundering out of interest,
What are the capacity limits of two stroke motocrossers and enduros(dirt/dune bikes) offered by other manufactures at present?
Does anyone else produce 500cc 2T motocrossers or enduros anymore? etc?
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2016, 11:16:29 AM »
with the advent of hard enduro, 300 looks like the best capacity. I heard kato were going to do another 380 but that could b a rumourhasit affair

Offline Mick D

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2016, 11:27:10 AM »
I rode on Stockton sand dunes a bit when I was much younger.
On a YZ465.
Had to carry a small piece of conveyor mat, so I could put it under the stand if I stalled it.
Simply killed two fiddy's off in the first couple of hours.
Big 500 2Ts with paddle tyres became very popular there. Huge buzz.
Not sure but I think it may be the case that you need full rego as well as an exy permit from the Worimi tribe now.
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline shelpi

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2016, 12:24:16 PM »
The newer Maicos seem to exist only as internet memes - lots of talk, but actual buyers/owners are impossible to find.
 I wonder if you could actually get one, even if you didn't have a better way to spend the cash.

I have one, a 2013 500. Built by a KTM dealer in Dortmund, Germany. Based on the 83/84 Maico engines which are used as Zabels in sidecar MX. A massive bike, and as strong as all hell. Pulls like a freight train at anything above idle and if I am honest, not a huge amount of fun to ride. Cool as all hell though!

No real differance, other than bore, between the 500, 620 and 680.

Here in SA, there must be four or five that I know of.

Cheers

     

Interesting, thanks!
I've got an 86 250 in the shed, and can clearly see the "new" versions are the same basic bike.
Without wanting to upset anyone, it does seem pretty clear that trying to make a 30+ year old design work in 2016 is pushing poop uphill. When the bikes are more expensive than more current designs, then you're trying to push it uphill with a pointy stick.

How does the motor compare to a KX500 or CR500?
you are so right Nathan about pushing poop, the top guys (GP) replace the gear box between each race meeting if not the engine
you really only need the 440 they will tend to have a better power spread and can eat most other 500's all in stock trim of coarse

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2016, 01:23:16 PM »
Biggest capacity current model mainstream 2T I know of are the 300s from Beta, Husqvarna/KTM, Sherco and TM.

TSP in Victoria is making 330 conversions for KTM/Katoberg/Katovarnas, and ESR makes 325 kits for YZ250s.

It's easy to romanticise big bores, but they stopped making them for a reason. The 500s are bulk fun, but  even in 1988/89 (when the KX & CR500 were still up to date with the 125s & 250s), too few buyers chose a 500...
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Offline KTM47

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2016, 04:27:26 PM »
I owed a RWJ Honda that had been a GP MX bike. Alloy frame Ohlin suspension etc.  A guy I know brought it in from the UK.  Anyway it was raced by Jocki Karlsson at Broadford in 2000.

Really the bike was fun to ride but was too much.  You could'nt even ride slow it the pits.  The power was similar to my Maico 490 but where it ran out of revs the Honda kept going.

The 500cc MX bike is dead as far as modern MX goes, but I'm sure a newer design with a capacity of 360/400cc and a broad power spread, maybe even just 4 gears could be competitive.  However I'm sure the Japanese manufacturers won't make one (especially Honda).  They're make too much money out of the parts needed for maintenance on the current 4 strokes.
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

1999 KTM 200, 1976/77 KTM 400,1981 Maico 490

Offline Bruno1969

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2016, 05:02:08 PM »
The newer Maicos seem to exist only as internet memes - lots of talk, but actual buyers/owners are impossible to find.
 I wonder if you could actually get one, even if you didn't have a better way to spend the cash.

I have one, a 2013 500. Built by a KTM dealer in Dortmund, Germany. Based on the 83/84 Maico engines which are used as Zabels in sidecar MX. A massive bike, and as strong as all hell. Pulls like a freight train at anything above idle and if I am honest, not a huge amount of fun to ride. Cool as all hell though!

No real differance, other than bore, between the 500, 620 and 680.

Here in SA, there must be four or five that I know of.

Cheers

     

Interesting, thanks!
I've got an 86 250 in the shed, and can clearly see the "new" versions are the same basic bike.
Without wanting to upset anyone, it does seem pretty clear that trying to make a 30+ year old design work in 2016 is pushing poop uphill. When the bikes are more expensive than more current designs, then you're trying to push it uphill with a pointy stick.

How does the motor compare to a KX500 or CR500?

Correct, the Mod Maico is based on the mid 80.s jobbie - albeit with Up Side Down forks, discs, power valve and modernish plastics. It is still a dated design though and feels it. Interestingly the modern Zabel engine slots into any post 84/85 Maico frame

They are pricey, but come with nice parts - 50 mm Marzochi forks, Reiger shock, Talon hubs, Magura and Brembo controls, Nickel plated HGS pipe etc. Strangely runs a Bing Carb though and YZ 250 fenders and number boards. Koestler says that make about 50 a year - probably bought by folk who like the nostalgia aspect.

Performance wise I think slightly stronger than a CR or KX 500 but I can't ride any where near the bike's capacity. Slot it into third and ride the torque wave is what I do but even THAT is exhausting.


Offline Mick D

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2016, 05:14:48 PM »
Biggest capacity current model mainstream 2T I know of are the 300s from Beta, Husqvarna/KTM, Sherco and TM.

TSP in Victoria is making 330 conversions for KTM/Katoberg/Katovarnas, and ESR makes 325 kits for YZ250s.

It's easy to romanticise big bores, but they stopped making them for a reason. The 500s are bulk fun, but  even in 1988/89 (when the KX & CR500 were still up to date with the 125s & 250s), too few buyers chose a 500...

Basically the answer I was expecting, plus a bit more. Thanks.
And we all know mass production of any product is geared solely by demand.
Saying that, the YZ465 that I lived on the edge of the dunes with never had near enough grunt in the dunes.
Though I was very fit at the time and it truly was an absolute hoot through the loamy trail to gain access to the dunes ;D

I have LC 490 Maico project hoarded away.
I also have a bit of engine NOS for these pre power valve liquid cooled reed valve models.
Although I have a few NOS 490 sleeves, I have always thought about de-boring it to a 77mm 400cc. (386cc actually)
By fitting an aluminium sleeve and then applying the Mahle Nikasil inivation :)

The 500cc MX bike is dead as far as modern MX goes, but I'm sure a newer design with a capacity of 360/400cc and a broad power spread, maybe even just 4 gears could be competitive.  However I'm sure the Japanese manufacturers won't make one (especially Honda).  They're make too much money out of the parts needed for maintenance on the current 4 strokes.

A lot of relevance in that post.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 05:32:43 PM by Mick D »
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline shelpi

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2016, 05:49:46 PM »
Biggest capacity current model mainstream 2T I know of are the 300s from Beta, Husqvarna/KTM, Sherco and TM.

TSP in Victoria is making 330 conversions for KTM/Katoberg/Katovarnas, and ESR makes 325 kits for YZ250s.

It's easy to romanticise big bores, but they stopped making them for a reason. The 500s are bulk fun, but  even in 1988/89 (when the KX & CR500 were still up to date with the 125s & 250s), too few buyers chose a 500...

Basically the answer I was expecting, plus a bit more. Thanks.
And we all know mass production of any product is geared solely by demand.
Saying that, the YZ465 that I lived on the edge of the dunes with never had near enough grunt in the dunes.
Though I was very fit at the time and it truly was an absolute hoot through the loamy trail to gain access to the dunes ;D

I have LC 490 Maico project hoarded away.
I also have a bit of engine NOS for these pre power valve liquid cooled reed valve models.
Although I have a few NOS 490 sleeves, I have always thought about de-boring it to a 77mm 400cc. (386cc actually)
By fitting an aluminium sleeve and then applying the Mahle Nikasil inivation :)

The 500cc MX bike is dead as far as modern MX goes, but I'm sure a newer design with a capacity of 360/400cc and a broad power spread, maybe even just 4 gears could be competitive.  However I'm sure the Japanese manufacturers won't make one (especially Honda).  They're make too much money out of the parts needed for maintenance on the current 4 strokes.

A lot of relevance in that post.
you can put a LC 440 top end straight on

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2016, 08:44:31 PM »
Had to carry a small piece of conveyor mat, so I could put it under the stand if I stalled it.

all I ever did in the sand was bury the back wheel till it held the bike up ::)

Offline Mick D

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2016, 09:38:44 PM »
We had occa straps around the front number plate and simply carried a half inch thick piece conveyor mat there.
No need to take helmet gloves of or anything. Start her up, grab the 8 x  8" mat and push it back under the occa bungy.
Away you go in a couple of seconds. Cant clutch start a beast in sand. 


Had to carry a small piece of conveyor mat, so I could put it under the stand if I stalled it.

all I ever did in the sand was bury the back wheel till it held the bike up ::)

So how did you bury the back wheel?
Obviously not with the throttle if the engine was stalled.

So you dug a hole deep enough to grip the rear wheel in loose sand? deep enough so it wouldn't fall over? Amazing ::)
So you got on your hands and knees and dug a hole with your hands?
Or did you carry a broad mouth shovel to shift the loose sand and then use it to fill back in around the wheel when you rolled the bike into it?
Surely you didn't lay the bike down in the sand for all the fuel to leak out whilst you were allegedly digging.
So what did you use to place under the side stand to stop it from sinking straight into the loose stand, whilst you dug this hole?
Let me guess.
You spewed your usual giant lump of bullshit out of your mouth to place under the foot of the stand. Is that more like the truth?
I don't even know why I bother reading your endless shit.
"light weight, and it works great"  :)

Offline b490

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2016, 09:59:05 PM »
Biggest capacity current model mainstream 2T I know of are the 300s from Beta, Husqvarna/KTM, Sherco and TM.

 The perfect size  enduro/ trail mount for most of us average  riders .
 Was  sold   on  the idea of a 300 2 stroke  on  my  first ride on one   ( over 20yrs ago now)  & had one in the shed ever since.

   
It's easy to romanticise big bores, but they stopped making them for a reason. The 500s are bulk fun, but  even in 1988/89 (when the KX & CR500 were still up to date with the 125s & 250s), too few buyers chose a 500...
 

 Very true  ....   great  fun  :) , but far more  tiring ,   for me  to  ride  my (detuned) '83 Husky      500    through  most trails than  my   '83   Husky 250    .   
  Can  go  faster in more places  ( well  my kind of fast  .... for me   ::) )  on  the smaller bikes   (250 -300 ) than on a big bore .
 
 Regards ,
                  Steve 
 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 10:43:21 PM by b490 »

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Maico 700cc.
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2016, 08:41:54 AM »
I never stalled in the sand for some reason. if I wanted to stop, just gave it a blat and spun the back wheel in and stepped off. Was riding the beach at Portland in the early 80's (on a TS400 of all things) and came across some blokes all bogged to the arse next to each other. asked them if they needed a hand and they laughed and pointed out they were "parked", not bogged.

The other thing is I only ever rode a 465 once :o never again so I get the starting issue and the need for a mat. I always rode bikes that were easy to start. ;)

the nicest 500 ive ever ridden, (most have scared me sh*tless) is the last a/c 1984 500 WR husky, just a stronger 300 ktm engine, fabulous bike to ride. very close to the 85 w/c 500 Maico which was a very useable 500 as well. rm, kx,cr and xc 500's have too much instant hp at the throttle for me. great in open going and mx but pooh on a descent trail.

ive never ridden a 490 maico which im told is an awesome big bore engine....1 day maybe