Author Topic: Cheap chair?  (Read 6319 times)

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Offline James Lee

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Cheap chair?
« on: May 08, 2016, 07:23:50 AM »
Hi,Ive been wanting to build a VMX sidecar for some time.Im not made of money and would have to do it on the cheap.My main question is can road bikes be used?We built a fun sidecar from a honda 4 about 10 years ago and thrashed the hell out of it off road.From memory it even had road tyres except for the rear and it handled quite well.Ive just been offered an 85 GPZ600 for cheap and wondering if it could be used?Not worried about finishing last.My nephew is just turning 16 and is keen to swing for me so I would have an agile passenger.Someone offered to help me build a sidecar from a DR500 I had sometime ago on this forum but I was bad timing in my life as I was trying to build our house and had no workshop but Im good to go now.Im looking at the bike this morning but dont want to buy it if its of no use.Thankyou,James.

Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2016, 12:12:29 PM »
Well I bought it anyway,at $200 I couldnt say no.

Offline EML

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2016, 07:49:49 PM »
James, Wally Wasp is being a bit nit-picky there with his post.
The 3 major classes we run are pre68, pre75 & pre85.
Mostly early sidecars for motocross are based on the Wasp chassis from England, if genuine they have a chassis number stamped on the steering head i.e RT2 RT15 etc...
In pre68 class the regs say it can be an RT2 or must be based on a road frame with a sidecar attached.....the sidecar must fit into the regs or 'moms' in the rule book, read up on them before firing up the hotsaw and welder.
pre75 is usually all Wasps or home-builts based very closely on them, because they work, but there is a rub....many '76 model Wasps (RT15s) are closer to the old model and so far from even a 78 or 79 model EML that they are outclassed and so really belong in the earlier catagory. As many run Norton, Triump or XS Yamaha engines that fit better into the older class too.
Your '85 Kawa is just out of the pre85 class but could be considered a "carry over" model if that engine was built the same before '85 and has no changes like flat slide carbs.
You then end up in the pre90 class and up against the lightweights like CR500, KX500, Maico 490, KTM 520 etc...power to weight will beat you.
Look, it all depends on your fun factor requirements, if you just want to have a ball, go at it, just bare in mind that if you want to run a National title of even a State champs, you might find yourself chucked in with the fast guys on quick outfits.
It would be a good idea to put your boy on another sidecar sometime so he can get a better idea of what is really required....we have had too many guys buy a sidecar that they can't learn to ride because niether driver nor passenger have a clue what's going on :)   

Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2016, 09:06:13 PM »
I love riding sidecars and allways have,my brother had a wasp when I was young,he had both MX and speedway outfits but was allways set up for speedway,I snapped the crank in the padock with a big over rev when i was about 9 and it never ran again.
Ill do some research to see if this bike is a carry over from 84.I dont mind if we get lapped and come last plus I love the sound of an inline 4.
Is there anyone around Brisbane or northern NSW that could help with the fabrication side of things and is a leading link front end required?
Ill enjoy doing tin work etc but have no idea on frame work and what is required.

Offline Tim754

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2016, 02:08:48 PM »
See current thread in Tech Talk"  Topic: Four stroke options , Second page third reply down, If you live close-ish I maybe able to give some (mostly crappy I suppose ..) Advice. I do have a spare rough Wasp universal attachment sidecar hanging on the wall. Tim754
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Offline Tim754

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2016, 02:11:38 PM »
Arrr I see you in Northern NSW Hmmm being as I am down just over the Murray River ...that not  real close :-\
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Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2016, 07:03:02 PM »
Damm that would have been great,your outfit is awesome.Is the frame honda 4 or all Wasp?Sorry I dont know much about them.Can I just buy a chair to go on my GPZ?What about the front end,do people make their own?I just picked the bike up tonight and its all looking like its in decent condition.Will tinker and try to have it running tonight.

Offline EML

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2016, 08:11:48 PM »
Sounds like you're well on the road mate, so welcome aboard. :)
We have a facebook page over at "Queensland sidecarcross"
You'd be most welcome to come up and race with us as we're more worried about how big the smiles are than if you're running MA prescribed tyre pressures ;)
Rider no.7 on an EML pre85 with GR650 motor is the man to talk to about fab work. I even think he has a built up sidecar waiting in his shed. He also fabs the Earles type forks.
We have an interclub event on the 22nd at Harrisville, just out of Ipswich on the Boonah road. Come up and intro yourself, you will be most welcome, and talk to us there, look at some racing and take some pics of stuff we race.

Offline Tim754

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 09:07:10 PM »
Wasp sidecar, front end and other odd items, married into a modified and strengthened K series CB750 engine cradle.  ;) Cheers Tim754
I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
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Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2016, 07:18:23 AM »
This bike is stuffed,2 cyl next to no compression.Back to the drawing board.What would be the best bike that isnt really expensive to buy?Im thinking something like a TT600?I have an XR600 but its a 1994 model so no good?

Offline TT5 Matt

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2016, 12:13:04 PM »
have you checked the valve clearances?you might just have a tight valve that only needs a shim changed or adjust the tappet,itd be worth a look before you start stripping it for spare parts ;)

Offline LWC82PE

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2016, 12:46:53 PM »
With a TT600, you will go through gear box gears when used as a sidecar. It was a common thing that happened to everyone who raced one of those, therefore everyone knew about it and gears were always in short supply and we all had our own stash of gears and never wanted to part with them to other teams. Always used to get people calling up days before the 24 hour looking for gears, trying to get their motor back together at the last minute. If you really wanted a TT then i would be starting fresh with a whole set of brand new/nos gears at least if you can still get them? But that's not going to be cheap and probably out of reach for a budget build.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 12:48:30 PM by LWC82PE »
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame or frame&motor. Frame # TS1852-24007 up to TS1852-39022

Offline TT5 Matt

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2016, 04:30:26 PM »
yeah the tt600's were a fragile box compared to the old tt500 who's box was 10mm wider then the 600 box,no wonder they broke just trail riding let along racing them.dr400/500's are in the same boat judgeing what ive read on here many times but the xr500's in both motor types had pretty bullet proof boxes same as the xr600's.had a bloke in town who liked doing power shift mono's off the traffic lights a xr600rf every day coming home from his work and that took that adbuse for 6 months before it broke a dog off a gear with it only needing that gear replaced,now thats a tuff box ;)

Offline 80-85 husky

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2016, 07:27:46 PM »
the xr gears needed replacing on a regular basis I remember but were still up to average abuse c/w the other bikes

Offline EML

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2016, 08:37:32 PM »
If anything is abused, it will break.
I raced today on a TT600 and we had no shift issues, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
A big twin or 4 is pretty tough. We are running GR650 motors up here, GSX gearbox stuff inside, so pretty strong. Find one of them.

Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2016, 08:47:02 AM »
Ive just hurt 2nd gear in my XR600 at QVMX on the weekend so dont think it will be any good as a side car.Will stick with my plan of using a road bike as a base,one will turn up at the right price sooner or later.There was no side cars at QVMX but it was only a practice weekend,I was hoping to have a ride or swing on one.

Offline EML

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2016, 06:39:56 PM »
We were over at Harrisville having an inter-club challenge that QVMX was invited to but they decided to do the practise thing instead.
We had 5 sidecars out as a few guys had to work and one has a hurt back and so on, saving themselves up for the titles in June.
You don't want anything too heavy though plenty of Honda 4s and GSXs & Kwaka9s have done the deal before. Twins produce the best power for the job.
 

Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2016, 07:41:09 PM »
Im still looking,if anyone comes accross something worth resurecting please let me.

Offline EML

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2016, 07:58:02 PM »
BMCC club day coming up at Harrisville. Come up and intro yourself, we'll find you an outfit to try'

Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2016, 11:14:08 AM »
 Sounds good EML,we are planning to come for practise and racing.

Offline EML

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2016, 07:45:01 PM »
BMCC club day next Sunday with camping Sat night at the track That's Sat the 20th & Sun 21st
Check the club FB page

Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2016, 08:32:24 AM »
Ive just had my 16 year old nephew move in with me and he is really excited to swing for me,is he old enough?
We have finally finished 2 bikes,taken way longer than expected,we will be coming to motofest qmp,will the side cars be there?
Really keen to have a look,the shed clean and ready for a new project,hoping to build it over the hot summer months and have it ready to hit the rack when the weather cools.
Still haven't found the donor bike but ready to get stuck in now the solos are done.

Offline James Lee

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2016, 08:44:11 AM »
I forgot to mention I have 2 engine choices,I bought an mc16 nsr250 that came with a spare engine but I think that would be too small?
Also I've picked up an early 90s cr500 engine,Is this too late or classed as a carry over?

Offline KTM47

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2016, 10:11:09 AM »
This is a difficult question.  Anyone that says it is ok hasn't got it right.  There are no follow on models for any bikes in Pre 90 (because no one has asked MA).  If the follow on model isn't in the MOMS it isn't approved.

However a motor may be different.  Find out exactly what year it is and compare the parts (engine parts) on something like partzilla to the 1989 motor.  Then if you think they are the same email MA requesting it be approved as follow on parts.  Don't expect the commission to do he research for you.
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

1999 KTM 200, 1976/77 KTM 400,1981 Maico 490

Offline KTM47

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Re: Cheap chair?
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2016, 11:55:42 AM »
MAICOS RULE DESPITE THE FOOLS

1999 KTM 200, 1976/77 KTM 400,1981 Maico 490