Author Topic: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion  (Read 68616 times)

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Offline William Doe

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2014, 11:55:28 AM »
The biggest problem with the rules is they aren't enforced across the board. 

"it's only a Club Day" is the biggest load of bulls#$t I have ever heard.  There is only one rule book.  Until every rule is enforced at club level right through to National Championships this debate will keep coming up.

I have seen Yamaha's in EVO with the safety seat combo (seat and tank) from an 82 model.  "It isn't an advantage" is the statement I get.  The other one is they are OEM.  In some peoples view if it is made by the same manufacturer (OEM) it should be legal.

My bike has a very hard clutch pull.  It has a Magura lever assembly, so I should be able to fit a Magura Hydraulic clutch lever assembly.  It would be OEM.

As for getting legal advice.  Lawyers are smart, unless it is something totally ridiculous they will give you the opinion they think you want to hear.

And yes the GCRs in the MOMS do need up-dating and in some places simplifying.

Hallelujah to that  :) I will have beer for you tonight Kev 

I honestly believe that Australia has the most appropriate , era friendly , workable and common sense rules in the VMX world .
They could do with a little fine tuning to but as they are they are IMHO a 9 out of 10 .

The weakest link in the system is the human factor , on the competitors side its either misunderstanding or pushing their own agenda .

On the officials side it is either misunderstanding or a tendency to see as kev says "its only a club day" and they don't want to be the bad guy .

Your Moms is a great template for any organisation wanting to run VMX events, but the implementation of them seriously lacks continuity across events .
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 12:05:12 PM by William Doe »
Its only old bike racing FFS get over yourselves





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Offline supersenior 50

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2014, 02:31:03 PM »
I'm with you, Bill and Kevin. I hear the OEM issue is being addressed. The legal adviser was given no opinion nor either sides' viewpoint, and gave his interpretation purely on the written rule. His view was sought purely in an attempt to put a cap on a rapidly escalating furore that was being detrimental to the lead up to the Post Classic Nats.
As long as there are individuals who will not accept the umpire's decision and keep gnawing away at it, the rule makers will never be able to close every possible gap. The question is, do we want another era based class or, as Evo originated, a technology based class to bridge between the Pre78 and Pre85. If we dont like it as it stands, lets keep all classes era based in which case may as well drop Evo, and go Pre80 and Pre85. Then stand back and listen to the screams.
The current rule, with a tweak or two along the way, has served the sport well for ten years and it is only a few people picking away at it that keeps this wound open.
As for "franken" bikes, Ive been racing MX off and on since 1963. My first racer, Ariel Comp Red Hunter 500 in home made frame, Norton forks. The hot ticket for years was Triumph engine, BSA frame and Gold Star or Norton forks. Enfield forks were often grafted onto all sorts of combinations. My "stockbike" for Speedway (1960s-70s equivilent to modern MX framed classes in dirt track) was Comp Matchless 500 in 1928 Triumph Tiger 80 frame, BSA Bantam forks, Matchless gearbox. We called them "bitzas". I only mention this to illustrate there is nothing new or scary about "frankenbikes"

Offline Ted

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2014, 05:18:10 PM »
Riddle me this then.

If these ( Pre 85 compliant fork ) components have ALWAYS  been legal to use, why then do the vast majority believe that only the fork off a Evo compliant bike can be used?
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Offline supersenior 50

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2014, 05:22:51 PM »
Because somebody told somebody who tells somebody else. It's how urbane myths are born.

Offline Ted

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2014, 06:38:24 PM »
So we are to assume that this " urban myth " as you call it has gone totally unchecked by the powers that be, with no formal rebuttal of popular belief that only components from Evo legal bikes will comply. Because I sure as shit never got the memo when I was building my bikes.

 It goes way further than somebody telling somebody else.
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Offline marshallmech

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2014, 08:36:43 PM »
Agreed Ted one person interpretation of a rule is not on MA need to clarify if forks from a later bike or no evo bike are legal
Andy Viper #70
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Honda CR250RZ
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Offline supersenior 50

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2014, 09:44:17 PM »
It's not ONE persons interpretation, it's an accepted interpretation by many people over a long time. If you don't like it you have the right to protest and put it to the test. That no one in ten years has done so should tell you something. Anyway there's nothing new in all this forum talkfest so I'm out.

Offline GMC

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2014, 10:36:04 PM »
Maybe this is the conversion that will solve all problems.
You can use later forks if you put them on backwards ;D

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Offline Shane W

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2014, 04:47:58 AM »
Ok, this is "as usual" getting out of hand.

Marshallmech, Ted and foremost John Tate if you fell so strong about this please ring me on 0412 996 771 and we can discuss (discuss not rant and rave) our differing views. If you ring me that means that you are truly concerned about it, if you don't then, well, it maybe that you just like ranting on here.

I do run my own business so please call after 4.00 PM today.

John, I do not like being call a cheat and as I am the only one that has spoken out on here about this (in this post) this time, I can only assume you are directing that at me. So you in particular I would like to discuss this with.

I ride vintage motocross for the fun of it. I do not go there to protest but to have a good time. I believe some of you think this is the world championships and life will end without it. well I am sorry but you are wrong. If it upsets people that much that I have these forks on my bike well ok I just won't ride it then as simple as that. I will be another evo rider that has chosen not to ride. Point of interest when I started in VMX 10 years ago and rode the first Conondale classic a few years later, we had that many evo 250's that we had to run 2 races for them (over 50 bikes), where are they all now???

For the sake of the forum and a bit of decorum lets finish this thread now.

Shane Wilson
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 04:52:31 AM by Shane W »

Offline William Doe

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2014, 05:34:11 AM »
Riddle me this then.

If these ( Pre 85 compliant fork ) components have ALWAYS  been legal to use, why then do the vast majority believe that only the fork off a Evo compliant bike can be used?

Thats how i have always read the rule , forks must be from an evo compliant bike as thats how i interpret these rules.

16.15.12.2 Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed.
16.15.12.3 All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured:

However i also interpret these rules as meaning that the YZ H model forks would be illegall too as they are A from a 1981 model bike and 1981 is not in the period of the CR 250R ,RZ or RA 1978 , 79, 80 they are from 1981 . Also i dont believe that the Yamaha forks are a straight bolt in  without modifing or changing the stem so 16.15.12.2 as it is written excludes them also.

The only big fork legal fitted to anything but a 1981 YZ in EVO would have to be FOX factory forks .

As far as i know the YZ H forks have been accepted since the introduction of the EVO rules ( but i dont understand why when the above rules clearly exclude them )

The later model Honda forks should not be legal under the above rules either .

As i said in my other post your MOMs are a 9 out of 10 but the above rules need rewording as one of the tweaks they need.

Im with Joan for keeping things period , in 1978 the 37mm Honda forks were OK by 1980 they were very average but thats part of the charm of riding a red bike . An RM 250C is an evo bike but is not a patch on and RM 250T , a YZ 250E is an EVO bike but again a 250H is a much better option .

Its only old bike racing FFS get over yourselves





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Offline Ted

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2014, 10:50:51 AM »
Ok, this is "as usual" getting out of hand.

Marshallmech, Ted and foremost John Tate if you fell so strong about this please ring me on 0412 996 771 and we can discuss (discuss not rant and rave) our differing views. If you ring me that means that you are truly concerned about it, if you don't then, well, it maybe that you just like ranting on here.

I do run my own business so please call after 4.00 PM today.

John, I do not like being call a cheat and as I am the only one that has spoken out on here about this (in this post) this time, I can only assume you are directing that at me. So you in particular I would like to discuss this with.

I ride vintage motocross for the fun of it. I do not go there to protest but to have a good time. I believe some of you think this is the world championships and life will end without it. well I am sorry but you are wrong. If it upsets people that much that I have these forks on my bike well ok I just won't ride it then as simple as that. I will be another evo rider that has chosen not to ride. Point of interest when I started in VMX 10 years ago and rode the first Conondale classic a few years later, we had that many evo 250's that we had to run 2 races for them (over 50 bikes), where are they all now???

For the sake of the forum and a bit of decorum lets finish this thread now.

Shane Wilson

Yeah sure. I'll call you this arvo.

But before you get this thread closed and Col nicks off ( a trend that a few on here do when challenged ) can youse answer the question above that I asked. Why is this so secretive that only a few have ever only known about it
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Offline supersenior 50

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2014, 11:23:46 AM »
Ted I'm not nicking off because challenged, but simply because I've nothing else to contribuite to a topic. This is a.forum for opinions not personal attacks.

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2014, 11:24:37 AM »
In 96 & 98 I built 79 and 80 CR250's using 43mm CR480 forks, in 2002 I built a 490 Maico using 43mm YZ400 forks. All bikes were raced up and down the east coast in the Evo class at big events and not a word was ever said.
Many other Evo bikes used the same and it was widely accepted as ok!

Offline vandy010

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2014, 11:49:30 AM »
There is no secret Ted,              just that some understand & some dont                               some agree and others wont   and everything in between..
"flat bickie"

Offline Ted

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Re: 79 CR250 Front End Conversion
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2014, 12:07:33 PM »
Vandy it's not that I don't understand or won't accept the ruling

It's about why only a certain few are aware

Surely 10 years ago the Author of the rules could have come out and quite simply said " hey guys, you don't have to just use EVO forks, you can also use Pre 85 forks , pre 85 air cooled motors etc" instead of making it public a couple of months ago, 10 years after the fact

Would have nipped it in the bud there and then
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