Author Topic: Frame Welder in Brisbane  (Read 5167 times)

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Offline GMC

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2014, 10:35:22 AM »
The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.
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Offline pmc57

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2014, 08:07:32 PM »
 What's the consensus about powder coating frames, is it all it's "cracked" up to be?

Offline YZ250H

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2014, 07:17:12 AM »
The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.

Hahahahahaha - Bang on Geoff   ;D ;D ;D
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The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.

Offline rocketfrog

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2014, 02:01:34 PM »
Ok, the fix is complicated and requires some specialty in the field of welding, heat treatment and machining.

First, you will want to buy some 4130 tube from performance metals in the Sydney. Tube should be heavy walled that can be machined to fit snugly up into the downtube from the bottom and extend past the damage to up around the head tube joint.

You will need to cut out the engine mount spacer tubes (cut them out with gas from the bottom and leave the  upper and lower welded bosses in the frame - more to follow)

Mount the frame onto a large lathe saddle and run a boring bar down the length of the downtube to cut the seam weld excess off for said snug fitment of doubler tube.

A few 8-10mm holes are drilled into the existing outer tube to allow for stich welding of the inner tube after fitment of doubler (this serves to pin the inner repair section to the outer damaged tube, new engine mount spacer tubes are turned to inside diameter of 8mm same as stock and approx 2mm wall thickness.

Drill and ream the lower portion of the tube (oversize the existing bosses to accept the fabricated spacer inserts and continue to bore through the inner tube to make a new hole for the spacer inserts to slide through) the existing bosses are used as a guide or pilot for your drill and reamer.

Weld from the bottom to secure the spacers (upper spacer first so you dont obscure access by the lower spacer), the bushes should also have a 45 degree bevel cut on each end and the finished oversized hole should be cut with a 90 degree c/s to prepare the inner and outer spacers for a final weld in four places around the end of each and then file the bead flat to restore the original dimension.

Obviously you can trim out the rust damaged section of the original tube before the installing the repair section.

Now you need to bend a new gusset, use a section of 4130 tube to either brace the corner as a straight notched piece (unbent option) and then plate the sides in to close and add stiffness- or bend the 4130 to match the original contour and plate in the sides as said.

The original design is a die forged plate section which is going to be difficult to replicate although possible with sheet metal skills. I think the tube gusset left open would suffice and not become a moisture trap.

All welding should be carried out by competent persons and heat treating the entire frame after repair to normalise and stress relieve is highly recommended.
Since you are going to this length, consider a magnetic particle test over the entire frame to identify any cracks which should be repaired prior to heat treatment.

I consider this a good as new permanent repair, but it will cost you. I can mag particle test your frame at no charge, I think heat treatment for the frame runs at about $200 and the tube is around $50 plus freight. Machining and welding is per the hour and Niccom at Loganholme is very good and specialises in frame repairs, the fellow mentioned at slacks creek is also of good repute, but I have no experience with him.

Food for thought
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Offline YZ250H

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2014, 02:48:20 PM »
 :o :o :o :o :o

Or find another frame.  I'm not that attached to this one  ::)

Care to have a guess at a cost for the repair works anyone  :-\
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The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.

Offline rocketfrog

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2014, 03:51:37 PM »
A good frame can be a tricky thing to find in Oz, have you had a repair quote from anyone yet?
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Offline YZ250H

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2014, 03:53:42 PM »
Not as yet.  It's becoming bigger than I had imagined  :o

Of course it has to be my favourite bike  :'( :'(
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The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.

Offline rocketfrog

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2014, 07:55:20 AM »
What did Rob have to say about the repair? It sounds like he has the gear to do the job.
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Offline 147

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2014, 12:07:22 PM »
If you want my opinion now that i have seen the pic of the offending item,i would invest $50 or $60 in having it completely sand blasted,this will show up any other problems the frame may have,you can then decide whether or not to try and salvage it.Not a fan of putting powder coat anywhere near anything except maybe furniture!
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Offline YZ250H

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2014, 12:12:04 PM »
If you want my opinion now that i have seen the pic of the offending item,i would invest $50 or $60 in having it completely sand blasted,this will show up any other problems the frame may have,you can then decide whether or not to try and salvage it.Not a fan of putting powder coat anywhere near anything except maybe furniture!

Yep, that is my next step.  Have to strip it first.  It is behind a few others on the jobs list - the ones that have to replace it on the track.

To save a few bucks I will (carefully) cut the gusset off so I can get the down tube blasted as well.
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"My inability to use emoticins in the right context is really getting me down :)
The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.

Offline GMC

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2014, 01:08:00 PM »
There are always guys who will barrack for paint or powder like they are barracking for a football team but the truth is neither is responsible for the problems here.
I have seen my fair share of bog under paint that hides shit as well.

The major problems like this often occur when moisture gets into a cavity and can’t get out, often mud will get into the cavity too which can hold moisture for a long time and eventually it will eat away until fatigue fractures appear because the material is so thin as it has been eaten away so much.

Common problems in a model mean chasing another frame doesn’t always solve the problem as you will most likely just be buying another with the same problem. Best to personally inspect a frame if you intend to buy another. Try and develop a keen eye for detail for when you inspect it.

I have had a few frames that when I cut the tubes water is then able to escape, it often comes out like black sludge and will stain the concrete floor for weeks.
Condensation will get sucked into the tubes on cold days but can’t escape on hot days so it stays there until the is a major break.

Rocketfrog is pretty much onto it, replace parts with cro-mo and heat treat after all welding is done.
His instructions seem to suggest keeping the downtube with reinforcement inside, I think I would most likely replace the whole tube and refit any engine mounts.
Your earlier photo shows the cracks okay but do you have a picture that shows more of the frame so I can judge how much would need to be replaced
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Offline YZ250H

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2014, 01:18:57 PM »
Thanks GMC.  Some more photos for discussion/interest.






« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 10:35:37 AM by YZ250H »
Looking for YZ250C parts NOS if possible

"My inability to use emoticins in the right context is really getting me down :)
The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.

Offline YZ250H

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Re: Frame Welder in Brisbane
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2014, 07:16:06 AM »
Photos added above.  Hopefully they show a bit more detail
Looking for YZ250C parts NOS if possible

"My inability to use emoticins in the right context is really getting me down :)
The only triple jumps he would have been doing are the hop, skip & jump.