Noel: Fernando said I can't race the postie! :o

[hessam69]

I do have a spare 1993 frame...

But it is over 1985 right?




Oh well

[YSS]

All jokes aside Hassan , I think you have tree options that could make sense.
a) if you want to race the postie , then join the postie racers club. Thats good fun believe me.
   In Thailand where I work this class has a bigger following than normal MX .Its called Cycle cross.
   And you should see how they go!!!!
b) buy a classic bike , it doesent have to be a 10000.00 Dollar Maico.(although they are nice and bring back memories)

c) or just buy a modern and go full blast with the moderns .

Anything in between will never be right for you or the VMX ers. I don't know for what reasons you want race your bike in VMX , but keep in mind VMX is not just racing , its also preserving an era.

[hessam69]

There is no such thing as postie racers club anymore as the owner Warren Leadbeatter moved south and no longer holds events

Not everyone can afford a motocross bike which is why I own a postie

Unless someone wants to sponsor me to ride their bike?

I can be fast 

[Rosco400]

jeez you blokes..do I have to think of everything..all this hassle over a simple little 2000 model or whatever posty special..the fix is simple..get yourself an early chassis for next to nothing..no-one wants the frames  Bolt all your stuff..engine, wheels etc. onto/into the early frame..presto!..you have a perfectly legit bike that can't be knocked back! It's obviously only the newer chassis number that's causing the issue cause the rest is the same  as the early critters Walter, I reckon in that hypothtical VPX (Vintage Postycross) class you could safely include next years model too ..1 may rightly ask themselves, where is VMX headed? 

Pre 70, Pre 75,Pre 78 Evo all in one bid


http://cgi.ebay.com.au/old-hondas_W0QQitemZ260216338857QQihZ016QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Doc]

hessam69, for the amount a decent late model CT110 would sell for you should be able to buy yourself an MX bike that will fit. The 110 Honda's are very popular as a bolt in engine replacement/upgrade for 110cc pitbikes, if it's in good condition it will fetch a good price. Over $1000 is not unusual for a posty.. I have seen near complete and rideable RM125's, TM125's and YZ125's all selling for much the same or less this in the past few weeks. A PE or IT maybe depending what you like (apart from posty bikes)..most of my bikes come in well under $1000..sell the posty and find a good replacement there's a nice incomplete (90%) '75 RM125 on ebay right now with a starting bid of $250 I'd be on the blower and attacking with venom if it were local..alas, as always it's not so I watch..throw another $500 or so at it and this bike would suit perfectly and be an ideal investment even if you did race it.

[Nathan S]

WTF!?

Carry-over model and/or parts = it's legal regardless of the date on the compliance plate.
This is no different to using a 1976 DT175 in pre-75, or a 1971 RT1 in pre-70, etc.

While I'm disagreeing with several people that I like/respect, there's some remarkably irrational, emotive responses in this thread:
If its good for the goose (HL500, Metisse, etc) then its good for the gander (CT110, DT175, etc).

If you think new HL500 replicas or 'new production' Metisses are fine for VMX, but are appalled by the idea of a pre-75 (or whatever) CT110, then I'd love to hear some reasoning behind it.


WRT Magoo's point ("Why!?") I kinda feel the same way as him. My best guess is that racing VMX bikes is fundamentally illogical - so of course it's gonna attract people who want to race illogical bikes.


Having said all of that, Doc's last post is a winner.

[YSS]

You have good points Nathan, but I can not recall a postiebike class in 1974  or any year in that era .
Where I have to say the Metisses where definitely there and documented. So if anyone has documentation and photos of such configuration that could help Hassan with his project that would be great. I think that would save any arguments. However they did have a 50 cc and later 80cc MX class in Europe with the Zuendapps , Kreidlers , Hercules, etc. So what is right and what is wrong ? I believe the the first 110 came out in 82 and before they where 90 s and before that they where 70 cc. I am not sure of the exact years , but surely somebody on this forum would know with certainty.

[firko]

Nathan you can't compare a 2003 CT110 Honda with a genuine replica of a bike that actually raced in its era like a Metisse or aN HL Yamaha. The CT110 was released in 1980 but it's stretching a long bow saying that an 03 model is identical enough to pass as a flow on model. The flow on models that are allowed like the '75 CR125 are practically identical and only one year newer. If we were to allow a bike 23 years newer than the introduction model we open up a can of worms that would introduce all sorts of challenges to the flow on regs. There are already some examples that really shouldn't be there like the RT1 Yamaha and certain Maicos being in pre '70 but as it stands right now  they are legal because the rule book says they are. If Hessam wants the 03 CT110 included as a flow on, he should lobby his club and commission rep to include the bike in the flow on list.
My advice for Hessam is similar to that given by Doc. If you are obsessed enough to want to race a postie bike in VMX, sell you newish bike for good money and buy a model that fits into the era you wish to race. If you want to race pre 75, buy a CT90 and trick it up. If you want to race Evo, get an 80-86 model. I don't normally criticise peoples choices of VMX rides but I have to question why anybody would want to race such a primitive bike when other more sensible choices are available. Shit, even an AT1 or a Jawa California are better choices than a CT110 whether it be a '63 model or an '03 model.

[Nathan S]

Nathan you can't compare a 2003 CT110 Honda with a genuine replica of a bike that actually raced in its era like a Metisse or aN HL Yamaha. The CT110 was released in 1980 but it's stretching a long bow saying that an 03 model is identical enough to pass as a flow on model. The flow on models that are allowed like the '75 CR125 are practically identical and only one year newer. If we were to allow a bike 23 years newer than the introduction model we open up a can of worms that would introduce all sorts of challenges to the flow on regs.

OK, two divergent paths here:
1. If the newer bike fits the carry-over model description, then who cares whether it is one, five or twenty years newer than the first model?
Yes, we can (and probably should) discuss the details of this specific case, but in the more general sense, it's both irrational and indefensible to argue that a 1975 model is an acceptable as a carry-over bike, but a 1980 or 1995 model is not, if they meet the carry-over criteria.

2. How many genuine HLs got raced in MX anywhere in the world? What about in Australia? While they're a cool and interesting bike from a historical perspective, their mark on the MX scene is about as relevant as the CT110's...
The Historic Touring car regs specify that if you want to race it, you've gotta prove that one raced in Australia, back in the day. If VMX is genuinely about recreating the era, then we should have a similar rule.
If nothing else, it'd cut the crap about MX400As and so on.
It would also breathe some relevance into the lists of acceptable bikes for the eras...

[GMC]

I can see the logic of some of your argument Nathan, but I think it is a bit like buying a new Mini Cooper to go classic car racing with. I don't know much about the postie bikes but I gather thier are some differences so it is not a true follow on model.

[Graeme M]

My take on this is we race VINTAGE MX. The whole carry on thing was brought in to cope with a couple of cases where a bike that was just like the previous years model was ineligible because of the year cutoff.

But look, arguing the toss about how far carry ons go is silly. We buy, restore and occasionally race dirtbikes that were made donkeys years ago. We are trying to celebrate, venerate and relive a particular time. The rules are aimed at supporting that.

So, any bike that is made in 2003 and MARKETED as a 2003 model is a 2003 model, it is NOT a vintage bike and it is not a carryover. End of story.

Trying to suggest that a 2003 model carried in a mainstream manufacturer's catalogue as a 2003 model is somehow the same as a replica frame into which a real live honest to goodness 1978 engine is placed is downright nonsensical.

I have to agree with the others on here. If there is a thing called Vintage MX and its purpose is to encourage people to race 30 year old dirtbikes, then why the heck would you buy a 2003 model and go try to race it?

And now my usual disclaimer. Naturally I couldn't care less really, if someone wants to do this, it's sure not gonna worry me, even if they beat me on my HL500 with their postie bike. But if there are rules, then there are rules. Don't like it, go lobby for a change and get it voted on. Just like Gezza did with his 86 CR250...

[090]

Hear hear ! It would be just as absurd to race it in the moderns, its a mobile road block. Either get a paper run or get a vintage bike of some description and come ride with us!!

[Tim754]

Hey hessam69 at least sell the agi farm postal delivery bike ( Oh the 2003 model you have is a 5 speed gearbox and they started much later as the early 90/110s had a dual range hi/lo type box so that being a "major component" precludes the follow on theory straight away) and get an SL100 or SL125 or even an SL70 as they pop up for sale all the time . Handle small worlds better, standard they are still a slug as you seem to want, are quite VMX legal and you can still buy lots of hot up bits and pieces that are VMX legal too. PS Don't try to run one on nitrous oxide, it makes the little four strokes howl but also bloody explode............ ::)Tim

[firko]

Nathan.......I'm blown away by the absurdity of your second statement. Surely you're taking the piss here? How can you say that an HL has as much relevance as a CT110 on the MX scene?

Oh, and remind me again what the crap with the MX400A is?
Jeez!!

[Nathan S]

OK, it was obviously a generalisation, but while we all go on about how wonderful HLs are, what lasting, significant impact did that have on the MX scene? I'll wager that it is "virtually nothing".
Hell, hardly anyone even knew they existed until a few years ago... And it's not like they were even the impetus for a competitor to make a revolutionary, historically significant bike.
They were an oddity at best - the fact that they sold a grand total of 400 worldwide, says it all.

That we look at them 25+ years later, and see them as a VMX-compatible version of the '98 YZ400F, doesn't alter their lack of meaningful impact on the history of MX.
Obviously their impact is greater than that of the CT110 - but for one bike to be so staunchly defended as a legitimate VMX bike while the other is so demonised, is beyond me.

The MX400A crap was, as I've had it explained to me, someone with a (pre-production or early production)  MX400B trying to claim that it was pre-75 eligible.