Author Topic: Cappra kickstart/clutch  (Read 8789 times)

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Offline 414VG

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Cappra kickstart/clutch
« on: October 13, 2010, 03:29:19 AM »
I spent a while today finally trying to get me newly rebuilt 414VG started for the 1st time. It wont start, think the spark is too weak and i will try another coil tommorrow.

Main reason for this topic is that when kicking the bike over vigouresly, it seems to quite often go *soft* ie i think the clutch is slipping during the kick over process.  Could this be correct and what should i check?  I assume the clutch springs may be weak ??
Any help thanks,
Sandy

montman

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 03:56:34 AM »
Hi Sandy

Had this problem many years ago with friends bike,take clutch apart and see if the plates are burred over where they locate in clutch basket if they are this will stop them pressing together correctly,try filing ends of plates level and refit also check plates are not burned/scorched if this has happend then new plates are wanted.If every thing is in order then try new springs.


 

Offline hitatreeonce

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 01:47:51 PM »
I'd try backing off the clutch adjustement before I pulled it apart, just to see what happens, then I'd move onto montemans suggestions, as for spark every montesa I have looks like its got weak spark but they all run just fine

Offline cappra

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 03:41:22 PM »
Yes, back off on the clutch adjustment, as the clutch cable adjustment might be
partially engaging the clutch, causing the kicker to feel "soft" when kicking thru.

Offline 414VG

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 06:22:03 PM »
Thanks guys,  the clutch cable is loose. :(  Looks like i need to strip out the clutch basket for a look.

Sandy

montynut

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 08:24:54 PM »
Does the clutch activating arm have some free play with the cable disconnected? If not you may have inadvertently put the clutch pusher rod 180o out which means the relief in the rod for the activating arm is in the wrong place. Just a thought :-\

If you dismantled the plates completely they may be still dry between the plates (they need oil I believe to bite) also the plate order is critical.

One of my Trials bikes a Cota 350 would sometimes feel soft (slip) when kick starting (driving the clutch in reverse) but never ever slipped with the engine running  ??? never did find the cause.

To test a Motoplat spark strength remove the ground electrode from a good spark plug and then see if the spark will jump from the centre electrode to the earth (with the plug grounded naturally) you may need to test in darkness to see the spark. The spark should jump that gap if the system is healthy. I assume you ensured that all paint etc was off at least one frame engine mount and coresponding engine mounting point and also off the coil mount. I know everyone knows that but had to ask. I normally run an earth wire directly from the stator base to the coil mounting bolt (ensures a solid earth). Motoplats like most early electronic ignitions have little energy at kicking speed. Hope that helps.

Greg
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 08:54:56 PM by montynut »

Offline 414VG

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 06:18:22 AM »
Swapped the clutch basket for a known good one from another bike, kicks fine now, but bugger me i cannot get this old bitch to start.  Spark is ok, plug is wet, my right knee is beat..!!!

Sandy :'(

Offline hitatreeonce

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 06:58:05 PM »
AHHHH Sandy you need to master the montesa starting swing by the sounds of it, they start easy but are not easy to start! I'm sure most monty riders would agree with me !

Offline cappra

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 07:16:22 PM »
I can offer but a couple of tricks.  First is to slowly turn the motor (and I mean slowly!) over.
This will bring in a standing wave of mix which will help in starting.  The second is the old Maico
trick of of leaning the bike way over to flood the carb and aid in starting.  I have used the first method
with good results.  I was once moving the kickarm thru slowly by hand when it popped and scared the hell
out of me!    The third way is a hill.......

Offline 414VG

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 07:22:26 PM »
Thanks guys, its not as if i havent started a 414 before.  The motor is all rebuilt too, might try the hill method today!

Sandy.

Captain Bilko

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 07:27:50 PM »
The third way is a hill.......

For the life of me I just can't bump-start mine! Just too much compression. If it stalls going into a corner I'm usually knackered and the only thing that'll light the fire is to find a mound to lean on and kick...... :P

I use Jared's method to start all mine and it seems to work good. Four or five really slow pushes of the kicker, get it to TDC and give it everything. Cold they'll usually go in about six goes.

Bangin' away at the kicker is just a waste of energy. If it wont light, something's wrong...... :(

Offline hitatreeonce

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 07:31:44 PM »
Mine usualy start in the first three kicks if they dont they wont, I use the same techinque as cappra flood shit outa it and then if it wont start throw it off a cliff!

montman

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 08:16:21 PM »
I use a different method kick it quick and fast many times (like pumping it)you need a good strong right leg for this method it has always worked for me,stubborn bikes have taken quite a few kicks but always fired(guys i am all for trying new ways so next time i will give your way a go).Monts do have a knack to starting them but we all know that,the last resort is bumping it if it does not fire then then somthing is deffo wrong,Sandy just a thought woodruff key/timing all ok?.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 08:17:53 PM by montman »

Offline Mike52

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 08:24:49 PM »
Swapped the clutch basket for a known good one from another bike, kicks fine now, but bugger me i cannot get this old bitch to start.  Spark is ok, plug is wet, my right knee is beat..!!!
Sandy :'(
Imagine the first day with your brand new H6 360 and having this happen.
Very first time.
Just lay on the ground and cried . [and kicked my feet]
Had no trouble after that .
I think that they just hate english speakers.
Mike
85/400WR,86/240WR,72/DKW125,Pe250c,TC90,TS100,XT250,86/SRX250,XR400r
Friend  struggling up a hill on a old bike at MTMee .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjj6E2MP9xU.

Offline Slakewell

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Re: Cappra kickstart/clutch
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 08:31:49 PM »
Motoplate are average when new , when there 30 years old there shit.
Make sure the stator is freshly earthed, Take the carby off , spray some start you barstard into a cap and pour into inlet, If it fires your motoplate is no good.
Current bikes. KTM MC 250 77 Husky CR 360 77, Husky 82 420 Auto Bitsa XR 200 project. Dont need a pickle just need to ride my motorcickle