Debate- Linkage; Is it really vintage??

[YSS]

It actally makes me think . If was not for Firko and other old schoolers that actually lived in that era and actually raced in that era , what would happen to Vintage racing ? Some smart and smooth talker will mend , bend , push until his semi modern bike is made legal , not thinking what impact that could have for the future of history. They then move on , and leave their mess behind . ( perhaps to go on and revolutionize the kilting or knitting fraternity).  Thanks Firko and all the others for calling a spade a spade.

[Graeme M]

Is Linkage Vintage? No. But is linkage OK to race in VMX? Yes.

To me, it's what Firko says, Vintage as a concept, or a philosophy even, is Pre 75 (OK, Pre 78 maybe). It's wildly different to the bikes of the 80s and 90s, and I think we have to preserve that concept. I'm doing my bit, my only old bikes now are a 78 125 and a 74 125.

But... the 80s were a time of real evolution too. The bikes from 78 to 88 changed dramatically and it's a time in history as valid as any other. And I LIKED all that big hair and lycra - some of the girls at gym back then really had my attention!! And I actually painted an XT500 fluoro yellow and pink. Sad but true!

Vintage is about those halcyon times from the 60s and 70s. It's about a different world, a time now lost. That said, there is definitely a place for celebrating people's youth, be that 40 years ago, or 30, or even 20. And the VMX scene is where we can do that.

So, I say we NEED Evo, Pre 85 and Pre 90 to keep the whole VMX scene growing. But true 'Vintage' is sacrosanct and it's Pre 78!!! Not sure how to really cement that idea in people's minds tho.

Imagine an '80s MX' raceday, all those luvverly fast fluoro graphiced linkage suspended, water cooled rocketships with their studly riders being tended by a bevy of lycra clad, big haired beauties? I'd nearly buy a CR Honda for that. Nearly...

[firko]

And what would that 80's big haired motocross do for the vintage movement Graeme? It'd be the first nail in the coffin.
I'm passionbate about this and know I'm right. Any more divisions introduced to the sport will, within a few short years, kill everything I believe the vintage movement stands for. Just think of Old Schools CR500 example and it all comes home. These bikes will kill the sport, full stop.

[Graeme M]

Oh c'mon now, how could that happen??? The sport is the people involved. As long as there are blokes who want to celebrate the Pre 78s then there will be classes and races for them. Who the Hell cares if some big girls blouse wants to race an 86 CR500 and pretend he's on a real bike??? You could have events for all those girly newcomers who want to restore an 89 KX125, and there'll still be old schoolers with garage queen 72 maicos and 68 BSAs and so on. Why would a bloke racing a Pre 75 bike suddenly think "Wow, I've seen the light, gotta get me one of them 88s?" But a bloke with an 88 just might think "Geez, those old bikes are sooo cool, gotta get me one of them".

[Yamaboy]

I think the point being made Graeme is that there is a strong chance that someone will want pre 95 soon. It's all moving too bloody fast! Why not as Mark says, build bikes to suit the current classes not new classes for the bike you've got tucked away in your shed. Utilize the classes available now without adding to the mix. Is the intention to have five year cutoffs to define our sport? Right now we have a linkage class( pre 85), a tein shock class (evo) pre 80 in Victoria, pre 78 for those who want a bit of both worlds and pure vintage (pre 75, 70 and 65). If another linkage class is introduced it'll all get crowded and one or more division will suffer. I'm blown away that there are people who don't seem to care about or understand that flooding the sport is detrimental to the extreme.

[Maico31]

I've got to agree with Firko and Yamaboy, we don't need pre 90. We've only just introduced pre 85, give pre 85 and evo a chance to grow to their full potential. If you want to ride a pre 90 dirt bike, get yourself a modern bike cos they aren't that different in lap times. We need more people like Firko to stand up for what vintage is about before newcomers to the sport push it into the modern era and pre 78, pre 75, etc are forgotten about. it's too soon to push for newer classes than what we already have.

[DJRacing]

Guys, slow down here, the debate doesnt have anything to do with introducing new classes. As I understand it at the moment the majority of clubs allow up to 1985. So with 1985 as a cut off point bikes with linkages are racing in vmx already. What the debate is that I have proposed is;   Linkage, is it vintage?  Maybe my wording should have included the "1985" cut off point. But in no way was I suggesting or implying adding more classes to vmx.
My mistake for not including the year cut off point.

I should have titled the debate   "Linkage; pre1985, is it really vintage"

Sorry guys
 

[paul]

if i join the army can i have a submarine
 :(NO  
  WHY NOT
   8)CAUSE WERE THE GENERALS AND WE MADE UP THE RULES
 

[Maico31]

Linkage bikes are now 25+ years old so i believe there is a place in vintage racing for them. Most of us who raced prior to 1985 are now 40+ and want to race the bikes we rode in our youth, which for some are pre 85 linkage bikes. I think that's what makes people passionate about vintage motocross is the fact they can relive their youth on their favourite old bike. Some of those guys will buy older model bikes as well so they can do more than 1 class at the races.

[090]

OK my go. Been in vintage 18 months. 41 years old in Feb. Started racing '81 on a mini. Didn't really take any notice of the big bikes (evo's). So '82 linkage bike cr125 in juniors.I never knew anything else.I am now very pasionate about all bikes from all eras.I have a bike i can race in almost every class, i will have a pre '70 ready this year. From where i am standing, it wont be  pre '85 or pre '90 that will kill vintage, its the people getting involved now and in the future that will kill it. I think i am a bit of a minority in the fact that i have embraced bikes older than my 'era' (i do hope i am wrong), but some people that are on the fringe or thinking about riding vintage would tend to go for an evo or pre '85 because they can relate to a bike of THEIR past not yours or yours.If their was a pre '90 class i would go out and buy one to race but i wouldn't park an older bike to do it. I always take three bikes with me. Maybe if you have a pre '85 or pre '90 it must be your second bike and your primary has to be '77 or older.I think we as a vmx movement should be thinking of ways to incorporate the enevitable. If you think otherwise you are in denial.As well i would like to ask or maybe challenge fellow vmxers to get a pre '70 bike and bring it to keep them alive. I would like fellow members that are around my age to say what era bikes they ride regularly. I must say that i dont care if there is no pre '90 but would welcome it if it was introduced. This is nothing like what you wanted DJ sorry! To put towards your original thread, for me, linkage IS vintage. 18 years old racing a '85 CR500. Ah those were the days. I employ guys younger than my cr500, that makes me and my bike old!

[TM BILL]

Quote DJ " bikes with linkages are in VMX already "

Yep and that was the first nail in the coffin 

Long live true vintage pre 75  I can accept ( & enjoy ) pre 78 and pre 81 but who the hell opened the gates and let those semi modern over suspended ,over braked kettles into our sport 

I think its a Kop out  "O but we never rode those old shitters , we started racing in 198??? "

Fair enough so why get involved in a sport and then do all you can to change that sport from its original concept

Over in the land of the long white cloud & the long dark welfare state ( North island only , South island does it different again ) there are too trains of thought . Up north the cut off is 1980 or air cooled drum braked twin shocked , in the middle & bottom the cut off is pre 86 both outfits run great events obviously the pre 86 series attacts bigger numbers but also tends to attract young riders ( many younger than the bikes they ride 

I admire the northern Classic Scamble club lads for sticking to their guns and not allowing the kettles in  every season ( and they have been running for a few ) still more bikes are being restored or just pulled out of the shed and ridden 

As Firko says we need to build bikes for the classes we have not keep adding classes to keep Johnny come latley happy .

The central Kiwi Vintage MX runs an awsome series where the true vintage bikes and misserable Bastards like me can co exist with the Kettle crowd amicably.

The people all share a common passion some are just miss guided in thinking their kettles are proper vintage bikes   

There in now and i dont think we will get rid of them  but lets hope the rot stops there, Pre 90 yea right 


 

[Hoony]

I think some of you blokes should go back and read DJ's original post, your waaaay off topic with your obvious passion for your chosen era.

now  my turn, i agree with Brad i'm nearly 45 and i started riding at 13 on a XR75. my era was early to mid eighties and thats my passion, i like all bikes as i am a bike nut, but i do like to ride my eighties CR's and that's my choice (the same as what you blokes choose to ride) there is no right and wrong we will all have to agree to disagree. we can all co-exist is some way or another like it or not.

the sport is too small and its a niche market in OZ, its never going to be mainstream because it only appeals (mostly)to those that were in the era at that time. so what if someone like something different, who the fork do you think you all are to try to change their mind or dictate what they Should or should not be  riding according to your rules.


i also don't want to ride against 20 y/o's in modern MX, I want to ride with blokes my own age with a same attitude

young pricks with superman capes on their backs and are still fully sponsors by their parents without a family and mortgage are too gung ho for me at my stage of life. whos wants to barrell into a first corner and be taken out by some crazy who decides he wants that $20 trophy at all costs.

[All Things 414]

This was all started by a Kiwi. They are trying to WHITE ANT you all. This is WMD all over again. It's like the Pre 90 linkage bike caught in the trench with an AK 47! It's like the Pre 85 bikes are the MWU and the post 85 are Patrick Stevadores. It's like the Pre 85 bikes are Little Red Riding Hood and the post 85 bikes are The Big Bad...........I'm ringing the PM. You know. The little guy off the Midday show! 

[TM BILL]

This was all started by a Kiwi. They are trying to WHITE ANT you all. This is WMD all over again. I'm ringing the PM. You know. The little guy off the Midday show........

 Dont blame the Kiwis  its his Irish side

[holeshot buddy]

i agree with maico 31 and brad090 the current setup is running along quite nice i spent 3 years trying to get pre 85 in up here in queensland it finally came in   my excuse i have been racing pre75 for 22 years  
and i just wanted to ride or race the bikes that i rode in the eighties before i become old and decrepid  :'(
i still race my pre 75 and 78 evo and pre 85 and if i had a pre 70 i would race that too and if pre 90 came in up here i would race that too i enjoy racing all classes its good to ride them all you can really feel the advancment in technology (big word ) i think anything later than pre 90 defeats the purpose
thats my fuggin bit  


kawasakis and suzukis rule  maicos and hondas are for tools  





it ran last time i started it