Cheney TM 400

[mboddy]

I don't find the pipe on the Cheney TM offensive at all - it follows basically the same path as the original, and  the fattest part is where the fattest part should be.

In my eyes, this is a world apart from the low-boy up-pipes fitted to MX Yamahas and stuff, where - while the path is arguably the same as original - the pipe snakes around all over the joint, and the belly of the pipe is somewhere a lot further foward on the bike.

I agree whole heartedly.

I can't think of a simple, enforcable way to write a rule that prohibits the visual horror of something like Seige's MX, much less one the prevents something like the TM's pipe.

There are examples in the GCRs that can help improve the rules for Classic Motocross and Dirt Track.
For example:

The express purpose of these Rules is to ensure the motorcycles are in a condition,
which is visually compatible with the period of racing being portrayed. 
These Rules are to be interpreted so as to ensure that motorcycles are presented in the spirit of the period.

I was successful in protesting a bike on these grounds a few years ago.
It too was an abomination.
Afterwards many people congratulated me for doing this.
They all believed as I did that it's exclusion was in the best interests of the sport.

[Doc]

  for fear of being called an ol' fuddy duddy I agree with Firko.  Even if I never raced again my attitude wouldn't change and my bikes would be built 100% era and basically stock (or less than stock in most cases). This is regardless of what I am allowed or not allowed. For the full experience I want to ride my bikes how they 'were' and how I remember them to be

[Doc]

I see the Cheney is relisted with a buy it now of $6000 alas, I don't have 6 grand spare or I'd jump on it 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHENEY-SUZUKI-TM400-VMX-AHRMA-MX-PRE-1975_W0QQitemZ330250419555QQihZ014QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Wombat]

...Even if I never raced again my attitude wouldn't change and my bikes would be built 100% era and basically stock (or less than stock in most cases). This is regardless of what I am allowed or not allowed. For the full experience I want to ride my bikes how they 'were' and how I remember them to be

Onya Doc! My sentiments exactly.
We all have varying attitudes on VMX bikes and the sport in general; from the boring to the bling, from mediocre to mongrel, but this quote struck a chord with me.

[VMX247]

Why don't you get a contract drawn up and put in $1000 each and take it to CD events
and play with it.

[Freakshow]

still says it a bit on the pricey side even with the new buy now price.

[firko]

Thanks for the support Doc. By agreeing with my stance and not wanting to seem a fuddy duddy, does that mean you see me as an old fuddy duddy?   I reckon the thing about keeping the bikes within the parameters of their respective periods doesn't mean that we have to keep our bikes absolutely as they come from the factory. During the pre '75 period many of the bikes were less than ordinary, even for that period, and modifying them was par for the course. There was more engine and chassis hot rodding going on back then than in any other period in our sports history and I love to see period attempts to overcome those shortcomings. Aftermarket mods like cutting and shutting DT1 frames, replacing inferior Japanese forks with superior Ceriani or Betor units, Gem and Mossberger reed conversions and even big buck hot rod stuff like Cheney, Rickman and Champion frames were an integral part of the sport and instrumental in the development of improved product from the factories. Think about it. If we hadn't modified those bikes to within a skerrick of their lives the factories would have thought that we were happy with what they were producing and would have kept selling us the same old dross for a lot longer. The Suzuki factory if fact took the Cheney Suzuki that Eric Cheney had built for Tom Ledbetter in England back to Japan and replicated it into the RH that started the whole rush to Japanese  motocross supremacy. Just about every major engineering step forward had its beginnings in the aftermarket industry.

It's very easy to keep the mods to your vintage machine within the period because there were so many tricks to pick from. The magazines of the period were chocka block full of 'how to' articles so there are plenty of examples to inspire us. What I find totally wrong and against the very idea of what we are doing is to modify old bikes using too much modern technology. Fat pipes, oversized reed valve conversions using post 1975 style and even worse, V force style reed conversions, aluminium swingarms that have no resemblence to anything built within the period and lots more are the foot in the door to turning the bikes into something they never were.

Vintage motocross is not about creating modern performance out of old bikes. I believe it's about recreating a period when we and our bikes were very different.  There are so many ways to enjoy our sport ranging from nut and bolt perfect concourse restorations to building the era sympathetic trick machines or building or buying the exotic Cheney, Metisse or whatever that we could only ever dream about in our youth or just plain building a Dunger 100 and having a bit of fun. The possibilities are endless without having to add modern technology to old school toys.

 p.s.   Jeez Freaky, have you ever built one of these bikes? I'm currently building a Cheney 360 Yamaha and it's going to cost me way more than the Buy it Now price as are my Hindall Ducati and Hindall F31M Kawasaki. Trust me, I know that Cheney and it's a bloody steal.

[Freakshow]

The market will speak.  But as we all know building a bike its easy to over capitalise, just like a house, just because you spend the money on a pool or your taste in furishings, it means nothing unless the buyer has exsactly the same taste.  Same goes for cars and bikes. The market ebs and flows with whats in and out , and also what is fair money on any given day.  As the thread has indicate some folks dont like certain aspects of the biek as it is, the pipe has been mentioned, but Ajay may love it and spent a fortune on it, alas that means nothing unless the next buyer loves it just as much.

Price is alway subjective, but if you where to back out the costs such as a standard Tm 400 motor and other consumable parts the only special part is the frame and even that is set for only a certain less desirable motor.   IF it was a yamah frame or similar id put my  hand in the air fast as the next guy, but its only really in the relms of interesting.  IF the bike is special only due to the bvalue of its frame you would have to build the price in around that. so whats a Frame like that worth $1-2k ? then maybe if its matching tank stick on another $1k so your round the $3K ? now add in all the other consumable or costs to build that are recoverable costs and id say $4-5k would be more like a steal IMHO.

Its only worth what someone is willing to pay on the day, the day isnt over, and maybe the buyer hast seen it yet.  but there is always another day and another bike that is right for you.  this one isnt just right yet for someone.

Im as guilty as the next guy for paying to much based on the market, but i live by the rule if i like enough ill pay what its worth to me, thats my yardstick. im paying for my emotional connection to it what ever that price is,  if im buying it to move on then i use another formuala based on floor price etc.  currently on the modern YZ series we have been using the year less a grand as the trade in value, no reason, just that it seems it works, as in an 06 model is $5k 07 model $6. how long that last is any guess until the market again changes and its the year less $2k :O) or some other stupid line in the sand.

Meh......  good luck to whoever buys it, if they buy it for the right reasons 

[firko]

Rarely do I agree with or even understand your logic Freak but this time you may be pretty close to reality. To me that bike is worth every penny of 6k purely based on its rarity. You'd be extremely lucky to find another Cheney Suzuki, let alone another one for sale. They are the rarest of the rare, making even RH's seem common. I'd be surprised if Eric Cheney made more than a dozen Suzuki frames and he won't be making any replicas because the old buzzard is dead. Sadly in this vintage market two, possibly three things are against it. First up is the fact that it's a pre '75 class bike and unfortunately the pre '75 division is on a slow decline. Second (and I mean no insult to Suzuki owners ) It's a bloody TM400 Suzuki, hardly the most desirable of vintage motocross engines. If, as Lozza claims the engine is full of extra ports and other good stuff that make the bike faster, or at least ridable, Cozzie should have been a lot more creative with his ad, explaining that this is no ordinary TM400. Which brings me to the third reason I don't think the bike is selling. The ad itself is a little dull. The photos are ordinary and the bikes description only tells a tiny part of the story. That bike really needs to be talked up a storm, to really take advantage of it's rarity. I would have also listed the bike on USA eBay where it would be more appreciated and understood . There is plenty of scope to put a really good ad together on eBay and plenty of room for lots of photos.

Like I said earlier, I would buy that bike if I wasn't tied down with my own Cheney and other projects. Surely there is someone else with my taste and a quid in his pocket out there?

[paul]

someone on here must off seen the bike run .and if so how does it goooooooooo

[Doc]

Firko, ol' fuddy duddy was not directed at anyone but mearly a perception I have of what others may be thinking 

I reckon 6K is cheap and it's 100% rideable and repairable..what we need is a compulsive buyer like TMBill and then he can leave it stored at my place ..where are you William!!

[Tim754]

Freaky did you write your last posting, Fooking elll i readed it an it is shit hot gramma an spellin, I am impressed   Ok Stop it now it is a bit worrying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers Tim

[Nathan S]

The ad itself is a little dull. The photos are ordinary and the bikes description only tells a tiny part of the story. That bike really needs to be talked up a storm, to really take advantage of it's rarity.

He really ought to have added in the word "Wheelsmith"...  ...

I'm not even vaguely in the market for such a bike, but I'd have thought that $6k was a bargain for it.

Then again, I've seen a lot of stuff plummet in value since people started getting nervous about interest rates and fuel prices... I recently advertised one of my little old Mazdas, to fund the purchase of a YZ125A. Six months ago, similar (and often inferior) cars were selling quickly for marginally more than I'm asking for mine, but I haven't had a single call... *shrugs*

[Maico31]

There is no way Freaky wrote that.. It has capitals, comma's, full stops and makes sense. He must have a private secretary!

[Quicksilver]

Then again, I've seen a lot of stuff plummet in value since people started getting nervous about interest rates and fuel prices... I recently advertised one of my little old Mazdas, to fund the purchase of a YZ125A. Six months ago, similar (and often inferior) cars were selling quickly for marginally more than I'm asking for mine, but I haven't had a single call... *shrugs*

Plummet value is spot on. You think selling a little Mazda is hard. My wifes XR8 lost 50% of its value thanks to latest few fuel rises, she was lucky she was able to sell it at all.
12 months ago I had a line of people offering to buy my XB hardtop, two weeks ago I called some them to sell it so I could buy an Indian scout, huh.. All of them now dont have the money yet 12 months ago they almost all had the spare cash.  Yes things have changed.  :'(
That TM400 should of been nailed by now. Tis a reflection of things to come.