OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: firko on May 10, 2013, 11:47:40 AM
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You might not fully agree with CJ's Hammer and Tongs Credo but it's definitely worth reading.
http://www.siegecraftnw.com/credo1.htm (http://www.siegecraftnw.com/credo1.htm)
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we have a few kids in vmx in brisbane
but only cause it is dads bikes
my interest is 1973-1980
i have no interest in anything prior to this
i have no interest in pre85 pre 90
i am 52 years old
i do agree my kids will have no interest in my collection
when in gone
will it still have value ???
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I've read that before firko, possibly through a link on this site some time ago.
And I tend to agree, this is the time to be enjoying these bikes. And whilst there are a couple of kids coming up through the scene up Qld way as ElsinoreYZ has pointed out there probably won't be enough and maybe not all of them will stay. Why? Because apart from those special kids like Lockie Fox (who is currently restoring and race prepping a CZ as well), the bikes won't hold a great deal of relevance to them. Same with collectable cars. Even in today's market, the baby boomers are paying lots of money for an XY GT (even replicas can pull $50K or more) but you couldn't get that for a 1926 Dodge. Again why?
Supply and demand. Supply is no good without demand and those market forces sets the prices but that's another story although the demand over here is what is pulling the bikes from the US. And the fact that plenty have now been imported has led to us having a wider choice plus the price being more affordable. Bit of a win-win for us really.
So get out and ride what you got and, in the words of one Peter Geoffrey Brock, have a red hot go ;D As I'm hitting the big 5-0 this year i'll just add in " while you can" ;D
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REad all 5+ pages. best thing i have read....period. makes perfect sence, anyone has every organised an event should resonate all the words. THE focus on Participation and cost effective racign is often missed by many clubs trying to host a classic event. There is more to it than a modern cash and race mentallity.
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THE focus on Participation and cost effective racign is often missed by many clubs trying to host a classic event. There is more to it than a modern cash and race mentallity.
You are so right with that fact that most club look at the events they run with the main aim being to make money. I am in the final process of organising a open Moto Trial which is a part of the SA Trials Rider of the Year series. THe first thing that I was asked when I put the proposal to run this event to my club was "How much money will we make?" It is disheartening that the club has this attitude, my main reason for running the trial was/is to introduce our junior riders to another aspect of motorcycle sport as club focuses mainly on MX and enduro riding.
CJ
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It's an opinion I've expressed before and like ElsinoreYZ my interest runs between '70 and '80.
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I like how he mentions about bikes going O.S. a few times.
The value of bikes being a generational thing has been discussed a few times. There could always be the turn around. I've just seen it happen with Old Harley's. There's a whole new crew of youngsters who have started on scooters, moved on to bobbing old trail bikes and road bikes and have realized that Harley's are the real deal and are buying old shovelheads to bob. Bobbers are the lastest craze amongst these hipsters.
So who knows, todays ten year olds might find vmx to be ubber cool in twenty years time.
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Most of it's True what he said but it also depends on the
enviroment the kids are raised in these days.
But a lot of older or current Riders are not helping the cause
by having a shed full of bikes sat there doing nothing but sit
there .
Try and buy a CZ Greaves or early Husky and they don't hit
the market too often.. why because because there are too many
blokes with more than 1 or 2 in the shed.
They are really the enemy of the sport.
I had a bloke tell me a while back he had 28 yes 28 Greaves in
His shed tell me what real Value is He to the V M X movement
They should be out there being Ridden buy 26 other Riders..
The Stig
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The Stig , I totally disagree with you there all my bikes have been built from wrecks or parts ,Ive never bought a running bike (sorry just remembered one from Nifty)there are so many bikes out there to be found . Just because some of us have multi bikes ,I have not ridden for 2 years due to work so do I have to sell my bikes ? I collect and restore bikes that is my passion . Iain
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But a lot of older or current Riders are not helping the cause
by having a shed full of bikes sat there doing nothing but sit there
They are really the enemy of the sport.
, I totally disagree with you there all my bikes have been built from wrecks or parts
Me too, especially Stigs "enemy of the sport" last sentence (above) which I find a bit offensive. I've got a number of bikes and haven't raced for a few years for health reasons. Going by your statement Stig, because I don't actually race my bikes I should be selling them to someone else..correct? Well sorry to disappoint you but that's not going to happen until I'm good and ready ;D.
Like Iain, nearly all of my bikes have been built from bare frames, basket cases and/or other peoples cast offs. Rather than taking bikes away from the sport I reckon I'm adding bikes that didn't exist in the first place. I get a lot of joy from building them and riding them at the farm. Eventually I'll be return to racing on my dirt trackers and will be allowing other racers to race my motocrossers at certain meetings, not that it's anyone's business what I do with my bikes anyway ::). I do agree however that hoarders who own large numbers of one particular brand are a bit annoying, Anthony Suttor's 100 plus Bultacos immediately comes to mind, but I don't accept the argument that bikes are impossible to get. The rare bikes have always been rare and the common bikes are still common..the status quo remains the same but if you really want a particular bike and you're passionate about the hunt you'll eventually find what you're looking for. It's always worked for me.
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REad all 5+ pages. best thing i have read....period. makes perfect sence, anyone has every organised an event should resonate all the words. THE focus on Participation and cost effective racign is often missed by many clubs trying to host a classic event. There is more to it than a modern cash and race mentallity.
+1
quote:FUN:I puzzled over how to write that down- I looked up synonyms for the word FUN. But somehow "fun" just doesn't have anywhere near enough horsepower to represent how monumentally incredible this experience is... the family, the blitz, the smell of two stroke smoke, the glimpses - and moments crystalized in your mind's eye as you lie in bed in the successive days.
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They are really the enemy of the sport.
Stig when you have run events or worked behind the scenes for as long as most of the Enemies of the sport then you can speak . If you look at the collectors that have multi bikes they have been in the sport since before VMX , Twin shock Trials , Vinduro was even in the MA rule book . Iain
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Hoarders are always going to be there. Most of these guys are not collectors they just cant help themselves. Sadly many a choice ride slowly lowers itself into the ground and turns to rust. I myself know were there are whole sheds full of Montesa's, Bultaco's, KTM's and even RH's Suzuki's that have not seen the sunlight for years let alone turned a wheel these people dont sell anything and sadly you know that these bikes will die a lonely death.
All I can do if I cant race myself is to lend my bikes to someone who can. We need to focus on what we can change and what we can actually do something about. IMO worrying about some old hoarder with 50 bikes will not help put your efforts into what can be done. I do understand the frustration but butting head with these hoarders will only lead to head aches and empty trailers they get off by letting you know what they have and the fact you cant have it. It's there motivation.
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The way to go, is to have kids. That way all your bikes are still raced and you also spread the word to a new generation.
It costs the same as racing yourself but you get to bask in the glow of being called 'sponsor' (still broke, but with a Title...) The motocross is still fun and you can actually get out of bed unaided on Monday morning.
The good bit is that the breeding is also nearly as much fun as the racing. The motos seem shorter these days though ;D
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They are really the enemy of the sport.
Stig when you have run events or worked behind the scenes for as long as most of the Enemies of the sport then you can speak . If you look at the collectors that have multi bikes they have been in the sport since before VMX , Twin shock Trials , Vinduro was even in the MA rule book . Iain
Me to Iainyz i go back to Early 60s first bike was a 350 AJS plunger frame..
that was before Duffy's at Narre Warren.
And i was waving a flag for 2 years before i got my first bike
Like you i have 7 different bikes in my shed most bought as Basket cases that
i am doing up as time and money allow mainly trail bikes thou .
they are all different Makes and models only 1 of Each
Most People who know us now we are still the First to offer a club a Hand on
the Day..if they need it..
To me if some one has 20 different bikes Trials. R/R .Scramble . S.circuit
good on them i was mainly referring to some one with that many of 1 Brand
of bike..
I should have said They are not Helping the Sport Sorry about the Wording
The Stig
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Agreed
If you aren't able to ride your bikes, let the kids ride.
And furthermore, about the hoarding, a lot of the "hoarders" have haken the time, effort and money to seek out and acquire the bikes they want....
Regards
David
The way to go, is to have kids. That way all your bikes are still raced and you also spread the word to a new generation.
It costs the same as racing yourself but you get to bask in the glow of being called 'sponsor' (still broke, but with a Title...) The motocross is still fun and you can actually get out of bed unaided on Monday morning.
The good bit is that the breeding is also nearly as much fun as the racing. The motos seem shorter these days though ;D
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I don't necessarily agree with the Stig but concede he has a point.
But for a decent collection see here: http://www.retrotrials.com/page-1---europes-largest-collection-of-spanish-motorcycles.html (http://www.retrotrials.com/page-1---europes-largest-collection-of-spanish-motorcycles.html)
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Jeez, that's outrageous ! :o
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The laws of supply and demand mean that the more people own/collect/hoard multiple bikes, the higher the prices of the remaining available bikes will go.
No judgement there, just an observation.
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Looking around at the faces at VMX meetings, CDs, HBBBs and Vinduros, I can't help but think that VMX is going to take a solid hit in the next few years, as the core group of riders retire.
It seems clear that about half the current riders won't be riders in a decade's time.
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Hoarders, collectors, good luck to those that can afford to do this. If I had the cash I would to. I have no garage queens as all my bikes are raced but I would like some. I think a big injuctiece to VMX is when someone has a bike for sale we seem to get the negative comments on that the bike isnt worth what there asking. If someone is keen on the bike and willing to pay what someone is asking, as soon as there is a comment that the bike isnt worth that , then the potential buyer thinks second. I believe if your not interested in the bike at that price or buying it at all then but out. Only my opinion, hope it doesnt offend anyone.
Cheers Troy
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Anyone who thinks that kids are even remotely interested in the bikes we're interested in is clearly delusional. Throughout the last 25 years I've seen many kids riding their dads bikes but I didn't detect any particular passion from them for the bikes. They're involved purely out of loyalty to Dad and the free ride. Once dad leaves the sport, so does the bike and so does junior.
I can't help but think that VMX is going to take a solid hit in the next few years, as the core group of riders retire
And that's exactly what happened in the late 90's as the first generation of vintage racers retired from the sport. It took some drastic re vamping of the VMX product with new era cutoffs, VMX magazine opening our sport to new enthusiasts and fun events like Classic Dirt to fuel the revival we're enjoying today. In a decade a new generation of enthusiasts will come along on the strength of pre 2000 racing and it'll start all over again.
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Further thoughts on the Seige article (which are partially redundant thanks to 247's and Firko's posts that went up while I've been typing).
I'd say that 80~90% of people get involved in VMX to enjoy the bikes they owned or aspired to, in their own personal "Golden Era" - there are variations, but its typically our mid-late teens to early twenties, on bikes that were new or nearly new at the time.
I'd estimate that 5~10% get involved simply because dad races VMX, and they tag along.
Only once people are involved in the sport, do they start seriously considering bikes from 'out of their era' - and it's surprisingly easy to get people onto older era bikes, particularly one or two eras older than 'their era'.
But the number of people who jump straight into an older eras is tiny. If we are counting on them to sustain the sport into the future, the older eras of the sport are doomed.
Look at the rider demographics of VMX in its boom days: hugely biased toward riders about forty years old, on bikes that were about twenty years old.
Nowdays, the demographic is biased toward blokes about 50 years old with the most popular class being for bike that are about 30 years old...
It's no coincidence that 50-30=20 and 40-20=20... ;)
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The boom times of VMX were when the sport appealed most to riders who were in their mid-thirties to mid-forties. It stands to reason: it's the group who are most likely to have the income/family/mortgage pressures under control, and still be fit/energetic enough to want to go racing.
The relatively new Retro MX/Northern Districts (pre-90) club here in NSW supports this - the median age is about ten years younger than Heaven's.
40 minus 20 still equals 20. ;)
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It might seem odd, but all of the above seems to add up to one thing to me: to ensure the longer term health of the older classes, we need to embrace the newer era classes.
A serious, renewed publicity drive (outside of the VMX world) will be a huge help for VMX generally, including the older eras, but the long term health of those older eras is dependent on the strength of the newer VMX classes.
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You also need to look at why people may leave the sport or not compete in the big title events.
If you are going to have kids racing then they need to be racing against their peers not us old guys.
Having a bunch of 17 year olds racing for an Aus VMX Title is obscene.
But that is where it is going.
I don't want to race against anyone under 25.
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You also need to look at why people may leave the sport or not compete in the big title events.
If you are going to have kids racing then they need to be racing against their peers not us old guys.
Having a bunch of 17 year olds racing for an Aus VMX Title is obscene.
But that is where it is going.
I don't want to race against anyone under 25.
What if these same kids starting riding VMX at the age of 12
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You also need to look at why people may leave the sport or not compete in the big title events.
If you are going to have kids racing then they need to be racing against their peers not us old guys.
Having a bunch of 17 year olds racing for an Aus VMX Title is obscene.
But that is where it is going.
I don't want to race against anyone under 25.
What if these same kids starting riding VMX at the age of 12
Good Point Mark and Ted i am building up a sl125 Honda for my grandson ( 13 )to
start riding Vinduro and VMX perhaps limit the Size of the bike ..for juniors..
I think we have to get them Interested before they get the Car/ Girlfriend stage of
life. lets face it how many of us had to slow down with bikes while we raised a Family.
But then came back in there Later years..
The Stig
The Stig
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Anyone who thinks that kids are even remotely interested in the bikes we're interested in is clearly delusional.
That's not been my experience Firko. Our pre-65 and pre-74 scene has a number of youngsters riding and some younger 'older' guys too (35 years old or so)- and scarily, even pre-74 is 40 years ago so these guys are not running on fond memories of 'back in the day'.
I sometimes take an old bike to race in the Dads class at the local schoolboy meets, the kids were knocked out at the sight and sound of a CCM, most of them have never been exposed to older bikes, they can't remember a time before KTMs were orange ( if they were even born then).
My 15 year old has very little interest in MX (he prefers throwing himself down hills on a pushbike) but let him near my old Montesa and he will ride non stop 'til the tank is dry.
Old bikes are cool, more so now than ever. That is evident everywhere with street bikes but it's no less so with dirt bikes. However they don't teach mx history at school so the kids need to be shown what it is all about. Club meetings with an old bike class (anything pre-1995 will do) are a good place to start. Give a few On any Sunday shirts and DVDs as prizes for the young guys....
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Correct me I I'm wrong, but the "young punks" angst seems to come from the A-grade blokes who borrow a bike just to win an Aussie title... The young guys who are genuinely into the old bikes are welcomed with open arms, regardless of how fast they are.
The lack of distinction between the two groups is quite damaging to the sport - it usually comes across as whinging old men...
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It's a fair point though that many guys in their 40s or 50s don't necessarily want to be lining up against wild-riding 20 year olds.
Classes split by rider age, or by rider ability, seem to sort that out.
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Correct me I I'm wrong, but the "young punks" angst seems to come from the A-grade blokes who borrow a bike just to win an Aussie title... The young guys who are genuinely into the old bikes are welcomed with open arms, regardless of how fast they are.
The lack of distinction between the two groups is quite damaging to the sport - it usually comes across as whinging old men...
fork off Nathan , i hate it when you make sense ;D
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Correct me I I'm wrong, but the "young punks" angst seems to come from the A-grade blokes who borrow a bike just to win an Aussie title...
where, when and who ?
Like it or lump it ~ kids are the future :)
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Kids are the future. I grabbed a bunch recently and showed them "On any Sunday" they absolutely got it. Should be compulsory viewing at school. J
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Correct me I I'm wrong, but the "young punks" angst seems to come from the A-grade blokes who borrow a bike just to win an Aussie title...
where, when and who ?
Like it or lump it ~ kids are the future :)
As demonstrated by their queing up to enter the recently cancelled post classic nats ;)
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where, when and who ?
Like it or lump it ~ kids are the future :)
CDT Nats in Canberra a few years back is the particular case in point.
At least a few ozvmx regulars went home with bent bikes and/or bodies after being on the wrong end of hyper aggressive passing moves.
These aren't blokes who turn up regularly, or have any demonstrated interest in old bikes - they are not the future, they're just trophy hunters on borrowed bikes.
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Spot on Nathan
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Hi TM bill and VMX247. While I dont disagree with VMX, we seem to be waiting a long time for the young riders to demonstrate they are the future. Hopefully when they are older that will prove to be true.
I hate to spoil a good story with statistics, but I'll inlict them on you anyway.
Classc MX National Champs Wyaralong Queensland 2012
Pre 75 125 Up to 29 yrs 3 30-39 3 40-49 11 50-59 16 60 + 4
" 250 " 3 " 6 " 16 " 28 " 13
263+ " 2 " 3 " 21 " 16 " 19
There were more Superseniors (over 70 ) than 16-29.
There were more Ladies than 16-29
There were more sidecars than 16-29
Stats for Post Classic titles 2012 and 2013 where perhaps the young guys would be more at home. Sorry, not enough entries to run the events.
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Two weeks ago I asked a couple of questions in competition- 2013 Aust classic mx title, yet still no reply. Even a we have no answers yet would be good. Maybe trying to keep the interest for the people already in the sport would be a good start.
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Two weeks ago I asked a couple of questions in competition- 2013 Aust classic mx title, yet still no reply. Even a we have no answers yet would be good. Maybe trying to keep the interest for the people already in the sport would be a good start
Only six months away now.
Wondering if there are any updates for the event.
eg. friday- scrutineering
when allowed on site for camping
supp regs.
I now its still a bit early but six months goes quick at our age.
Cheers Troy
Troy I imagine you didn't get any replies because as of right now, I don't think anyone knows the answers to your questions. I don't think you're being snubbed, I think we're all in the same boat as you and were waiting for someone to answer you :-\.
Like it or lump it ~ kids are the future
Alison and Steve, I understand your situation as the parents of a young rider competing on your bikes and I really hope he's the exception to the rule. I'm certain though that the majority of kids riding their dads bikes at a vintage meeting are only there to please dad and for the free ride. They have little or no affinity with the bikes or the culture that goes with them. The light at the end of the tunnel is that they might indeed become vintage racings future down the track when the modern bikes that currently get their adrenalin flowing become vintage racing legal. Until then however they're just racing old bikes because dad is.
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I have just sent a reply off to Troy Bayless about having a stand at next years Bike Expo in Brisbane on the 21st to 23rd of March he is running (there's one in Melbourne on the 28th to 30th November). It's free for us (QVMX) and should make shitloads of people more aware of our great sport. The thing is it's next year but you have to plan ahead. There aren't many big bike shows anymore where all the manufacturers get behind and put on a show. Sad thing is Australia's biggest city misses out....Qld and Vic must be the big states when it comes to bike sales.....also makes me wonder if this has something to do with the no show of NSW riders at the recently cancelled Post Classic titles (no conspiracy theory's boys, well maybe a few)....maybe there aren't that many in NSW?....whats the go?...are they too hard to deal with in NSW?
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Seems like road racing has managed to make more of a jump to get younger riders out there
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Kids aren't the future of vmx they're the future of modern mx. 30+yo modern racers/riders are the future of vmx, just like I was and many of my friends now enjoying vmx!
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Kids aren't the future of vmx they're the future of modern mx. 30+yo modern racers/riders are the future of vmx, just like I was and many of my friends now enjoying vmx!
You know there's something going on when JohnnyO, Wasp and I are all in agreement.
:)
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You know there's something going on when JohnnyO, Wasp and I are all in agreement.
Shite the Apocalypse does really cometh!!! :o
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Bike Expo in Brisbane The thing is it's next year but you have to plan ahead. There aren't many big bike shows anymore
You'll have a ball,as we did at the Perth Motorcycle Show attracting all the over 30 years olds,,shoot any kid that comes near the place ;) ;) :D ;D
Quote Nathan "Correct me I I'm wrong, but the "young punks" angst seems to come from the A-grade blokes who borrow a bike just to win an Aussie title... The young guys who are genuinely into the old bikes are welcomed with open arms, regardless of how fast they are."
Ali, Nathans statement above sums it up ;) kids with a genuine interest are welcomed :) we have our own Michael (Frosty ) on here , hes not a kid now but was when he first got involved with old bikes :)
Maybe shows like these can get more young people interested ??? im 50 yrs old and i have bugger all interest in anything any bikes pre 1960 as i dont relate to them .
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A stand at the main bike shows is a good idea as there certainly a lot of "mid lifers" there looking to regain their youth :D
Also, what about the local vmx clubs having a display at modern mx events? The junior events maybe be better as the parents will be there and they are the ones that we are looking to attract to the sport? Just a thought....
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A stand at the main bike shows is a good idea as there certainly a lot of "mid lifers" there looking to regain their youth :D
Also, what about the local vmx clubs having a display at modern mx events? The junior events maybe be better as the parents will be there and they are the ones that we are looking to attract to the sport? Just a thought....
Absolutely spot on the money! It seems that some clubs involved in VMX are in it to make money. Even to the extent where tens of thousands of dollars are sitting in bank accounts while "home" tracks and amenities are slowly degrading into oblivion. The idea apparently being that the club needs the money for those days when only 10 riders turn up to a meeting..... Am I missing something? Or does there genuinely need to be more promotion of VMX?
Further more, no younger rider wants to race around a flat paddock full of bog holes that drown bikes and without so much as a tiny jump for coo-wee....
It seems if you are a younger VMXer (than the club's average committee member age), you're ideas and opinions are far from well received. No matter how much work you do or insight into "modern" successful club ethos's you might have.
The powers that be in our sport dictate what we (as paying riders AND MA members) must do. Surely if our numbers are dwindling (and indeed they are) those with the power to change things with the stroke of a pen MUST start asking members questions AND listening to ideas other that their collective own.
Imagine if you will, having Classic VMX title events in conjunction with, lets say, MotoGP at the island. Or as a spectacle at a V8 supercar round. Or even running around at lunchtime at any of the MX nationals events...... MA is both a promoter and insurer now so as far as I see it, there should be no obstacle(s) other than lack of interest from those that control OUR purse strings!
The point is, there is no active promotion of our chosen pastime/sport other than Suzuki CD's and Honda's BBB. Both of which are outstanding successes. MA's museum is testament to the money that is made from MA paying members and of recent times the success of HBBB.
Whatever happened to the ethos of "everything we do must be for the betterment of our sport"???????????
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Viper had a stand and bikes on display at the 2008 Melbourne bike show at jeffs shed i sat there all day saterday and most of Sunday to the sounds of wow they look great but wouldn't like to ride or race one most of the attention was from the 35 up age group from what i could tell and they where the one that took the literature we had and chatted the most about the bikes and racing
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I have read the editorial by Hammer & Tongs Racing (the original post). The question that has been asked is, is Vintage MX a dying sport. The easier answer is. Yes, if like they appear to do, you only consider everything EVO and older as Vintage MX. The bikes are getting older and the riders who own them are also getting older. How many of us want to just watch someone else rider their bike. Maybe the Classic MX Champs especially for the older classes Pre 60, 65 and 70 need to become handicap races where the combined age of the rider and bike decides the handicap. (Just a thought).
The future of Vintage MX can only grow if the age of the bikes eligible changes every 5 years or there abouts. The riders interested will reflect the change.
Just another thought is it time to introduce classes for Juniors. A 80/85cc and 125cc classes would be a start on Pre 90 or 85 machines of course. How many children of riders are there at the meetings who would also like to ride.
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Bike Expo in Brisbane The thing is it's next year but you have to plan ahead. There aren't many big bike shows anymore
You'll have a ball,as we did at the Perth Motorcycle Show attracting all the over 30 years olds,,shoot any kid that comes near the place ;) ;) :D ;D
display at the MX Nat at appin ?????
Plenty of guys that have never raced but have kids that race. Not anywhere near brave enough to race moderns but still want to have a go without the crazyness!! ops that's me :) Still I thought about VMX and just didnt really know how to get into it for years before I did.
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The comments about the 30+ year olds being the future would be pretty much on the mark. Most would consider it as a cheap form of getting back into the sport. But it has to have the same attraction to them as what started VMX in the first place. A cheap class of bike and something that they can relate to their youth, which would mean pre'95. I think the key attraction has to be that it's a cheap hobbie and it's the later bikes that you can still pick up cheap.
Most of us got back into old bikes because there was a point in time that we could buy our childhood dreams for not much more than beer money.
Now, if I can just find another $50 Maico..
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Back in the early days we put on vintage bike displays at a number of different places, the most memorable being at the 1990 Oran Park Mr Motocross round where we put a dozen bikes in the middle of the busiest part of the venue. The old bikes went down so well we put later them on display at Westfield Shopping Towns at Mt Druitt and Penrith, Amaroo Classic Road races, the opening meeting at Eastern Creek and other venues with new audiences. In recent years we had the Klub Kevlar Show'n'Shine events at Camden and later at Rooty Hill. We'd have liked to have done another one this year but after no response from my asking in a recent post if we should do it this year, I figured nobody was all that interested. It's too late for KK to do it properly this year due to heavier than usual personal commitments and business issues by various members but if we can drum up enough support we'll go with it again next year or perhaps over the summer break later this year.
As far as the involvement of juniors or sub 20 year old riders, I stick to my opinion that they're generally not much interested in old bikes at the moment but they will become interested in reliving the bikes of their own wonder years once they reach that time in their lives when nostalgia becomes important. The effort spent catering to junior racers whose hearts aren't really interested in the sport could be better spent by putting on more races or classes for those who are there because they really want to be and not there to get brownie points with Dad by racing his bikes. Just my 2c worth from 25 years of involvement and observation.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/camden11_zpsa7cb814b.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/camden11_zpsa7cb814b.jpg.html)
Camden Show and Shine
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15Nov07089-1.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/15Nov07089-1.jpg.html)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15Nov07072-1.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/firko2/media/15Nov07072-1.jpg.html)
Rooty Hill Show and Shine
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The comments about the 30+ year olds being the future would be pretty much on the mark. Most would consider it as a cheap form of getting back into the sport. But it has to have the same attraction to them as what started VMX in the first place. A cheap class of bike and something that they can relate to their youth, which would mean pre'95. I think the key attraction has to be that it's a cheap hobbie and it's the later bikes that you can still pick up cheap.
Most of us got back into old bikes because there was a point in time that we could buy our childhood dreams for not much more than beer money.
Now, if I can just find another $50 Maico..
why cheap? The reason most get into Vmx is more reliving ones youth, not because its a cheap interest. Your financial position or generally how tight fisted you are determines what you spend on your hobby.
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why cheap? The reason most get into Vmx is more reliving ones youth, not because its a cheap interest.
True, but in the beginning VMX was cheap to get into.
There are a lot of quality bikes in the scene these days but in some ways VMX has gone the way of mainstream MX in that it has become too professional.
Race bikes in the 70’s weren’t always that flash and anybody and everybody could jump on a bike and race it without the social pressure to ‘keep up with the Jone’s’
There are many reasons why VMX isn’t as strong now and one of them is cost.
All the die hards and lovers of all things old are still here but those that couldn’t afford much have probably moved on.
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why cheap? The reason most get into Vmx is more reliving ones youth, not because its a cheap interest. Your financial position or generally how tight fisted you are determines what you spend on your hobby.
When people think it costs $10k to get a decent VMX bike, most won't bother.
When a "worthwhile" race bike can regularly be had for <$2k, it makes it much more appealing.
VMX seems pretty addictive - the riders who get involved seem quite loyal. The issue is getting new people involved. When it is perceived that it costs more than modern MX, then we have a problem.
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I think you are still arse about. When you are keen you look into it and then find what it's all about. Then purchase a bike within your budget.
If your not that interested then that sort of crap comes out such as, I don't want to spend $10k on one, or the other one about shit old suspension etc. That type really just isn't interested.
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ktm47 "vintage is a dying sport"
gmc "vintage isnt as strong"
Where have you guys been?
I accept there is more to vintage mx than the Nationals but organised events where stats are available are a good guide.
Classic Dirt is so popular that numbers have to be capped ( I think at 800 )
Broadford Bonanza goes from strenth to strength.
2009 Nats Conondale was the second biggest entry ever
2010 was enjoyed by all
2011 Christal Brook SA, a very successfull and well supported event
2012 Wyaralong Qld was an all time record entry in spite of being the first Classic following the split ( no Evo, Pre85)
Before the Post Classic failures are thrown up, there were mitigating circumstances that wont be repeated, but the negative talking done on this forum didnt help either.
The 2014 Post Classics will be a resouding succes-watch this space
It is very disappointing that so called vintage enthusiasts continually talk doom and gloom and negativity when all the evidence is to the contrary.
A person considering getting into our sport, and looking to this forum for information/inspiration would likely be put right off.
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Hear hear Col ::) With respect your one of the senior citizens of the vmx scene :) but your drive and passion for the scene puts most blokes half your age to shame .
Anything will die in the arse if those involved present a negative image . The idea of showcasing what we do to the world at large at modern events etc is a great one.
Firko and the boys organise and attend show and shine events and they always look to be a great succsess, Kens editorial is a great piece on promoting our sport .
We do need to be carefull that people dont get the perception that it is an expensive hobby sport to get into ,and as Brad says you can put as much or as little into it as you want to .
There is a wide spectrum of builds and budgets out there in VMX land but generally what gets exposed to the public is the higher end bikes /builds .
IMHO its just as important to showcase the bikes that haven't cost a fortune to build or race, im not suggesting Roach of the week type things but more the average Joes racer and modified trail bikes .Doc is the master of these builds but there are so many more out there .
Along with negativity from within percieved elitism will prevent growth ( modern MX is a model for this , and junior moderns in particular )
Spread the positive word about what we do ;D
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I'm getting more than a bit tired of hearing how VMX is dying. A quick perusal of Supersenior Cols figures a page or so back will tell you that Nationals entry levels are steady and strong despite the Post Classic Nats failure to get off the ground two years in a row. In every other facet the sport is enjoying unprecedented enthusiasm, with Classic Dirt, HBBB, Classic Dirt Track and club level VMX enjoying strong support. Yep, there's an anomaly with the Post Classic Nats non-events which is hard to fathom but to declare doom and gloom when every other facet of the sport is booming is a bit premature.
I'm also sick and tired of hearing that people are turned away from the sport because they may perceive that it might cost 10k to build or buy a bike. There are places for all levels of financial involvement in VMX, whether it be a $1000 DT1 or a bling 15k Metisse or CCM. I'm also tired of seeing negative response whenever somebody posts on here about their cheap build....the old "My bike cost me 10k to build so if anyone does it cheaper they're cutting corners or bullshitting" sarcastic reply inevitably follows. The truth is that many of us are more than capable of building competitive machinery for minimum outlay. All it takes is time, some lateral thinking, reasonably good workshop skills and a handy mate or two. To belittle those who can do it on the cheap says more about the belittler than the belittlee. In the end though,the cost of your bike has very little to do with your VMX enjoyment. I've got $1000 bikes and 10k bikes and the cheapo's are just as much fun and in some cases more competitive than the blingers. What shits me even more though is bikes that look like shitboxes when they aren't. A punter may go all out on engine and suspension mods but finishes it off with rough second hand plastic and crappy rattle can paint job. You don't have to spend 2k on paint, powdercoat and billet gizmo's to produce a bike that is pleasing to the eye, Doc's rattle can restos are classic examples of what can be achieved. I know that some see bling and shine as the mark of the antichrist but they're overlooking the fact that our sport is still seen as Shitbox Racing by some members of the straight motorcycling press and outsiders who know no better. When dungers are presented as examples of what our sport is about it sends a wrong message to the world.
Above everything however, what our sport needs more than anything else to progress further is more people with the drive and enthusiasm of Colin Metcher. Col's in his seventies yet he's still the most progressive thinker in our sport. We need people half his age to take up the challenge and continue to develop VMX into the future or it will eventually wither and die.
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I think you are still arse about. When you are keen you look into it and then find what it's all about. Then purchase a bike within your budget.
If your not that interested then that sort of crap comes out such as, I don't want to spend $10k on one, or the other one about shit old suspension etc. That type really just isn't interested.
It's about the difference between "passing interest" and "keen" - the perception of decent vintage bikes costing more than a good modern is enough to prevent lots of people from pursuing it further.
How often do you talk to non-VMX bike people, and they tell you about their mate's $20k resto, or the $15k VMX bike they saw or whatever? I'd say that 90% of conversations I've had about VMX with non-VMXers includes some mention of the (perceived) high cost.
When I point out that most good bikes are more like $5k, and worthwhile race bikes can be had for $2k, the response is usually surprise or disbelief.
The perception that we're a bunch of rule-book nazis doesn't help either.
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As Nathan has indicated it may be the perception of the activity, VMX.
Someones perception of something is usually driven by what they see, hear and believe in. If someone is interested in VMX and all they see in the pits are high dollar bikes, and what they hear is based around costs and rules then their perception is tainted straight away.
However, if some one is keen to try VMX then firstly they need to realise what they want to achieve from it and where their and the bike of choice ability lays. If they want to be a high end competitor then the cost associated will reflect this, if they want to ride a bike they enjoy as it is and just participate then the costs will reflect this.
It really is a personel decision based on a realistic assumption of what someone expects to get from participating in VMX.
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How often do you talk to non-VMX bike people, and they tell you about their mate's $20k resto, or the $15k VMX bike they saw or whatever?
Rarely, if ever. Despite my vintage oriented outlook, I mix with equally as many folks from the modern side of the fence as on the vintage side and I get an overwhelming feeling from them that in their eyes, vintage racing is little more than a bunch of old farts riding old shitboxes. For instance, I had a lengthy conversation with Andy Wigan from Trans-Moto at CD9 and he told me he was quite surprised at the quality of the bikes in attendance and that the quality restorations far outnumbered the ugly dungers....he thought the opposite would be the reality. I don't think the average modern dirt biker has any perception of what it costs to build a vintage racer because it's not something that would ordinarily come up on their radar screen, most hardly know we exist. I recently sold some vintage sound equipment to a young "twenty something". When he and his mate saw my trailer on the front lawn talk got around to bikes and it turned out that they were both keen enduro competitors. After a tour of my shed and my showing off my bikes and projects they told me that they were surprised at the amount of detail I was putting into my DT2MX project and when I explained that I hoped to ride my IT250 in a Vinduro later this year, they looked at me quizzically and asked just what a "vinduro" was. Them entering my vintage oriented shed was as alien to them as me flying to Milan to be fitted for a new Armani suit. They were way out of their interest zone.
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...and then we're back to the stuff about VMX being an invisible sport.
More when my phone battery isn't nearly flat.
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Hey whats the worse that can happen?
My bikes that I get loads of enjoyment right now might be worth zip in 20 years if so I don't care I have enjoyed them in the now and if I push them into the pool room as there nowhere to race again I dont care I will drink beer look at them and smile.
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There's a complex mix of knowledge, ability (financial & physical) and desire needed when it comes to getting new people actively involved: nobody has yet managed to get involved in a sport they don't know exists; even the most passionate & knowledgeable person won't race if they're flat broke; etc.
For most of us, the three things build together: "That sounds cool! Yeah, I can do that! I reckon I know how it works... Hell yes, let's go racing!".
Take any one part out of the equation, and it all falls in a heap. The majority of potential punters WON'T have a burning desire to race VMX at all costs, and will easily get discouraged if they perceive it to be difficult and/or expensive.
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It is far cheaper to race VMX than it is to go fishing.
I will use top of the range VMX examples and average boat prices ( capable of completing at competition level)
81 Maico 490. $10,000. Boat $ 150,000 ( in reality closer to 300 K)
Enclosed trailer. $10,000. Rods x 5. $. 3,000
Boots. $. 700. Reels x 5. $. 5,000
Pants/Jersey/Gloves $ 400. Lures. $ 2,000
Helmet/Goggles $. 600. GPS/ Sounder. $. 5,000
Armour/Knee Braces. $ 1,500. Tag pole/ Gaffs. $. 1,000
Epirb/comms. $. 1,000
TOTAL. $23,200. $ 167,000
Fuel ( day). $. 40. $. 600
Entry fee/ Lic $. 90 $. 200
I have not included consumables such as chains, sprockets, rings, pistons, clutches as I have not included mooring fees, anti fouling, servicing, lost lures, fishing line, terminal tackle. You could easily run a bike all year for less than it would cost to slip a boat and anti foul it alone.
The Port Stephens Interclub Fishing Tournament has no problem attracting 260+ boats to fish it's 2 day comp with boats ranging in price from 60K to well over the 1000K and happily paying 2K to park their boats at the marina for 2 weekends
Why is this? Because just about anybody with a boat that fishes their own social/ club days is well aware of it
Not so with VMX. What percentage of riders at Appin, Mt Kembla or Clarence would know of VMX?
I dont think that the cost of VMX is the perceived problem with it ( in my opinion I cannot see a problem) the problem is the lack of awareness of it
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Hence why clubs like QVMX have a stand at the Motorcycle Expo when in QLD... not so invisible
Cheers
Kim ;)
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ktm47 "vintage is a dying sport"
gmc "vintage isnt as strong"
Where have you guys been?
I accept there is more to vintage mx than the Nationals but organised events where stats are available are a good guide.
Classic Dirt is so popular that numbers have to be capped ( I think at 800 )
Broadford Bonanza goes from strenth to strength.
2009 Nats Conondale was the second biggest entry ever
2010 was enjoyed by all
2011 Christal Brook SA, a very successfull and well supported event
2012 Wyaralong Qld was an all time record entry in spite of being the first Classic following the split ( no Evo, Pre85)
Before the Post Classic failures are thrown up, there were mitigating circumstances that wont be repeated, but the negative talking done on this forum didnt help either.
The 2014 Post Classics will be a resouding succes-watch this space
It is very disappointing that so called vintage enthusiasts continually talk doom and gloom and negativity when all the evidence is to the contrary.
A person considering getting into our sport, and looking to this forum for information/inspiration would likely be put right off.
Yes Vintage is strong because it means more than just racing, it’s also about restoring, owning the bike you always wanted or just going out for the occasional ride, even the Vinduro side is going from strength to strength
My comments were meant more for the racing side. A lot of the older guys talk about how bikes could be had cheap and of how there were always lots of entries in the early days, I read 151 entrants plus sidecars in the 96 Barrabool Nats and that was only Pre75 then.
It’s not a question of whether fishing is cheaper than racing MX, people need money to race and times are tight, they won’t be out buying boats either.
Totally agree that we shouldn’t talk the scene down but we shouldn’t stick our heads in the sand either. I don’t believe I talk doom and gloom all the time.
Also didn’t notice anybody talking down the Post Classic Nats until it was announced that it might be called off due to the lack of numbers.
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I dont think that the cost of VMX is the perceived problem with it ( in my opinion I cannot see a problem) the problem is the lack of awareness of it
..and then we're back to the stuff about VMX being an invisible sport.
I totally agree. Nothing personal fellas but if you've recognised the problem, what are you doing to help solve it? If we sit around at our keyboards whingeing about how things should be yet do nothing about it.....we're part of the problem.
Elsewhere on here a few weeks ago I stated that we'd do another Show'n'Shine if there was enough response from the shop floor but I got zip feedback, not one post or PM in response so I brushed the idea. Since then it's been eating me up so this arvo I had a chat with a couple of VMX mates and we tentatively decided to go ahead with the Klub Kevlar Show'n'Shine anyway. We haven't got a time or venue sorted but figure that sometime during the post season summer break might be the most sensible period.
I'd love to see an Aussie version of the British Telford Classic Off-Road Show http://classicoffroadshow.co.uk/id5.html (http://classicoffroadshow.co.uk/id5.html) here in Sydney. Why can't we do something similar here, combining a Classic VMX bike show with corporate stalls, celebrity meet and greet and all of the other attractions the Telford show offers the punters. I fully understand that there are venue and sponsorship problems that would need to be sorted but it's at least worth discussing.
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What have I done about it?
I signed up my 12 yr old nephew to a kickstart program, got his MA license for him, signed him up to Heaven and taken him to every meet this year
Last year I introduced one of my builders to VMX , he has bought 3 vintage bikes and he joined Heaven and rides all the meets.
Am currently looking for a bike for one of my employees who comes to all the meets, CD and is coming to Canowindra Vinduro
Attended the Rooty Hill show and shine with my bikes just as I attended Magoo's Camden show and shine also with bikes.
You know Mark, there are people who just type shit and then there are people, like me , who actually do shit
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Hence why clubs like QVMX have a stand at the Motorcycle Expo when in QLD... not so invisible
Cheers
Kim ;)
Hope Mr Crocket is ready to attend this one and get a few keen :)
It will surprise you how many people and overseas visitors that attend these shows that have a connection with older dirt bikes.
Cheers A
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Ted, I wasn't particularly singling you or anyone else, I was speaking in a general sense. I know quite well that you've supported and done a lot of good stuff over the years. I take it you'll support the Show'n'Shine Ted? ;)
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Hi Walter, no rose coloured glasses needed. Just the facts man,borne out by the stats.
Hi Geof, yes the 1996 Nats at Barrabool was great. 151 entries is very strong partcularly being Pre75 and I think possibly the biggest at that time. 2009 ( 13 years later ) Conondale had 160 which included later eras.
2012 at Wyaralong ( 15 years later ) had 166,Pre78 .
The more social events, Classic Dirt (capped at 800) and the Bonanza have come in since Barrabool and proved another avenue for the enthusiasts.
I dont suggest we shoud be complacent, but I do hold to my view that our sport is in good shape.
The positive aspects expressed on this forum are welcome and constructive, so lets keep it upbeat.
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lets break it down
There are four types of people in this sport
People who just do it on the keyboard (very common)
People who just do it "in" the dirt (very common)
People who just do it "for" the dirt (becoming less common and close to making the endangered species list)
and the most important type
People who do it for the dirt and in the dirt ( on the endangered species list)
People should worry less about the health of it and spend more doing it and promoting it , its "healthy" it just needs encouragement
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Ted, I wasn't particularly singling you or anyone else, I was speaking in a general sense. I know quite well that you've supported and done a lot of good stuff over the years. I take it you'll support the Show'n'Shine Ted? ;)
Any ideas on venues yet?
I could ask Chris Sutton if we could display them out side his shop in Penrith one Saturday. Maybe limit the numbers to 30 so as not to take up all his parking.( He asked me to display my 2 YZ's at a KTM launch a couple of years ago. I said "Chris, They are Yamahas, you dont sell Yamahas and they are 30 yrs old " He replied " They are motorbikes and they are really cool " I reckon there was as many people standing around/ talking about my 2 bikes as we're looking at new model KTM's) We could all throw in say, $5 each and do a sausage sizzle and then adjourn to the pub next door for a beer after its over. At least holding it at a motorbike shop on a Saturday we would be assured of attracting motorbike oriented people. I will ask Heaven VMX if I can print some of their flyers and hand them out.
Any merit in this?
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Ted, I wasn't particularly singling you or anyone else, I was speaking in a general sense. I know quite well that you've supported and done a lot of good stuff over the years. I take it you'll support the Show'n'Shine Ted? ;)
Any ideas on venues yet?
I could ask Chris Sutton if we could display them out side his shop in Penrith one Saturday. Maybe limit the numbers to 30 so as not to take up all his parking.( He asked me to display my 2 YZ's at a KTM launch a couple of years ago. I said "Chris, They are Yamahas, you dont sell Yamahas and they are 30 yrs old " He replied " They are motorbikes and they are really cool " I reckon there was as many people standing around/ talking about my 2 bikes as we're looking at new model KTM's) We could all throw in say, $5 each and do a sausage sizzle and then adjourn to the pub next door for a beer after its over. At least holding it at a motorbike shop on a Saturday we would be assured of attracting motorbike oriented people. I will ask Heaven VMX if I can print some of their flyers and hand them out.
Any merit in this?
That would be cool Ted
Chris is a good bloke I reckon it is a great idea.
Saturday morning there are heaps of moto dads that would love the old bikes and I am sure it would bring in new racers/members
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So I can pencil you in for a 125 D and a 84 CR 250 then Paul
I can bring 81 YZ 465 / 83 KX 500 / 77 RM 125 / 83 XC 500
Gonna need some KTM's ( of course ) and European stuff and some earlier models and Pre 90 and four stroke XR and TT/ XT. To let them know that there is a four stroke class .
We need to capture a couple of generations of riders, otherwise it wil be boring as batshit, just as it is today ( same bikes, different colour )
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So I can pencil you in for a 125 D and a 84 CR 250 then Paul
I can bring 81 YZ 465 / 83 KX 500 / 77 RM 125 / 83 XC 500
Gonna need some KTM's ( of course ) and European stuff and some earlier models and Pre 90
We need to capture a couple of generations of riders, otherwise it wil be boring as batshit, just as it is today ( same bikes, different colour )
Man those old KTMs look awesome
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While Marks idea of a summer show is fine I think that anybody mildly interested in getting into VMX will lose interest before racing kicks off in March / April
With Heaven staging a MX, Grass Track and a Vinduro just north of Sydney all in the space of one month ( late July / August ) the time to act is just prior to these dates which would make the show early July, and definitely before CD 10 which is only 2 hrs from Sydney and easily accessible for people that shop at Suttos.
As Chris will no doubt ask me when, I will put up 6/7/13 and 13/7/13 ( heaven round 20-21/7/13 Buladelah)
Let me know what you'se think
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I think you are on the money there ted good idea ;) its easy to talk about it , its another thing to do it , you are doing it ;)
It must be because you are one of those hard core gyprocker blokes ;D see you around like a butt joint ??? :D
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Your butt joints are round...only flat ones here ;D
So Mick is in with his TT rocket. Thanks Mick
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Your butt joints are round...only flat ones here ;D
So Mick is in with his TT rocket. Thanks Mick
Two TT500s rockets ted , they always pull a crowd ;)
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We need to get Shaun on board with some of his Pre 90's and his little CR 125 ( everybody had one of them back in the day ) And Noel with his CZ , who had one of them back then
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Lets break it down, there are four types of people in this sport
People who just do it on the keyboard (very common)
People who just do it "in" the dirt (very common)
People who just do it "for" the dirt (becoming less common and close to making the endangered species list)
and the most important type
People who do it for the dirt and in the dirt ( on the endangered species list)
Respectfully, I disagree with your view. What about the;
People who desperately want to be "for & in the dirt", but their health or financial position stops them. The endangered people (as its put forward) are not endangered, they are simply the ones with the time, finances, motivation and most importantly their health to do what they want and when. Aside from the keyboard warriors, the rest (more than likely) are trying to work out how to become of the endangered species. ;)
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ted/firko don`t forget to float the idea to the penrith club get some dirt trackers there to
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Fair call Bahnzy and respectfully i think you missed the point. ;)
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Open question to our in house Homophobe.
Is that your Black Dog on your avatar or are you taking yet another cheap shot?
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Maybe a float in the big Sydney parade ? That should bring VMX uptodate into the 21th century . ;D
Coming from Adelaide pal you would know all about fancy floats
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In respect to all views and opinions I'll also have my own, the bottom line is whether you're a "keyboard warrior" a "cyber racer" a vmx champion, a vinduro only man or maybe even a once a year CD or HBBB kinda man.....it cost NOTHING to be positive about your passion and hobby, you need pretty much NO skills or remarkable health to speak to people and educate them about a sport/hobby/passtime. You may participate in a practical sense, or you may not, it really doesn't matter!! The only thing that's important and conducive to the perpetuation of what we love is to be positive and upbeat about it, even being "just realistic" can sometimes in itself be non productive, talk it up and spread the word.
I think Shoey's assessment is quite accurate, and I also think Nathan has a lot of merit in his take on things..There is room in vmx/vinduro for 10k+ exotica and there is room for $1500 (safe) enjoyable bikes, and the respective owners of each!!
For me it comes down to the same thing time and time again, the man riding the cheapest bike and coming last often shares the same smile as the man riding the "bling machine" hosing down the rest of the field......what other sport can you find this kind of comradirie between opponents...........?
Just enjoy your chosen passtime and do your best to bring new people along to enjoy it also, while we're all still lucky enough to be able to stand upright and ride in a straight line... :)
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We need to get Shaun on board with some of his Pre 90's and his little CR 125 ( everybody had one of them back in the day ) And Noel with his CZ , who had one of them back then
Hey Ted
6/7 all good I'm in.
13/7 sorry mate I'm out. (Nepean Practice Day)
Cheers
Shaun
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Re the show an shine. I could put on display my 74 TM 250, 80 Maico 440, Pursang mk6 370 all nice tidy racers. If that helps.
cheers Steve
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That's great Steve, you're in
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Great to see the positive energy.
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As Shaun points out the 13/7 is a Nepean ( local to venue ) Dirt Track practice day and would only alienate some from attending the show. I will approach Chris with the date being 6/7. Say, with the hours being 8am-3pm.( His normal trading hours ) I would also assume we would have to be set up before 8 am so as to cause absolutely no inconvenience to his trading, and hopefully add to his takings for the day ( trailers/vehicles out of car park ) if we ever wanted to use the venue later on down the track. At that time of morning there is plenty of parking on the street.
Any ideas?
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Colin with all due respect , where can I buy those glasses ?
Maybe a float in the big Sydney parade ? That should bring VMX uptodate into the 21th century
Before I even start I have to ask..If the sport is riddled with gay rose coloured glasses wearers why do you even bother posting Walter? Fluck off somewhere else with your nasty, offensive remarks and insulting avatar. Either contribute for the good of the sport or go and bother your sidecar mates.....Oh yeah, that's right, they flucked you off years ago. ::)
Now, back to reality, I'm sorry I've missed the middle of this thread but we had to rush my old mum to hospital yesterday morning and I've been dealing with that since. She's as OK as a 93 year old can be, she just chucked a mini stroke on us without asking permission, the old bugger ::). She's in good hands and is sitting up ordering me and the nursing staff around so she'll be fine.
Back to Teds idea of a mini show'n'shine. I was about to spend the day looking into a venue for my plan for the summer but yesterdays crisis sidetracked that line of thought. Ted's idea is great and worth going on with. Sutto's indeed a great bloke and his shop is a hub for dirt bike folk. We'd have to pick dates that fit in with as many schedules as possible avoiding race weekends and Nepean practice days in order to achieve the best, lineup of good bikes from VMX, VDT and Vinduro. All three disciplines could do with the exposure and by them all being there it offers different alternatives to potential newcomers.
A selection of the really old (pre 60,65,70 and 75) and Evo through to pre 90 plus a few sliders, the odd flat tracker or two and an array of Vinduro mounts would present a good cross section. If there's any motocross sidecars in NSW perhaps one along with a dirt track outfit would also fit in.
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If that's the real reason the photo's up there I genuinely apologise and you have my condolences for losing a member of the family. However if the avatar is there to take a cheap shot at those suffering with depression, shame on you. You know quite well of the situation involving a couple of members and they, along with a number of others have taken the avatar in the negative way.
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To contradict my earlier post and to show that there is hope have a look at the ages of some of the riders in this vid: http://vimeo.com/54283500
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It's official!
The show and shine is on the 6/7/2013 at Suttos Bike Shop in Penrith
I will start another heading in the General Discussion section with all details
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You're doing it again, Walter.
The question you ought to ask yourself is: "How do I benefit by behaving like this?".
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OK something positive and pro-active has come out of this thread, time to lock it up before it turns to shit
See you'se at Suttos
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My apologies for introducing a negative side issue to a positive thread but I've had enough of the innuendo and barely disguised sarcasm. Walter knows exactly what he was saying and that's what disappoints me. We're trying to lift the profile of our sport up to the next level, something beneficial to your business Walter but your sarcastic pisstake got under my skin. Having a dig at my friend Supersenior Colin who actually contributes more positive ions than most others in this sport didn't help my mood either. It's not a Walter thing, it's an attitude thing, if any of my good mates on here had made the same smarmy comments under an arguably offensive avatar I'd have sparked at them too.
This thread has morphed into one of the more positive on here in recent times so without further comment on the negative lets take Teds lead and move on ;D.
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Well lock it then Mark
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To contradict my earlier post and to show that there is hope have a look at the ages of some of the riders in this vid: http://vimeo.com/54283500
There's some good music accompanying that great little film, I haven't heard any Jerry Garcia for yonks......I might just dig out a couple of Grateful Dead CD's this arvo. Moving on, my favourites in the vid are the little fat kid, I love the look of concentration on his face....he's really into it, and pretty good too. I also love the bloke riding the TY with jeans, a nana knitted sweater and a Cromwell (Davida probably) helmet. I'd have loved to have had a loop of that great little course on my Maico trials bike. The smiles said it all, those blokes were having a great time.